RE: TVR: Back in business (there's even a website)

RE: TVR: Back in business (there's even a website)

Author
Discussion

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Thursday 22nd November 2012
quotequote all
DJRC said:
DA, if the chance comes up and the moons and our schedules co-incide, Ill take you for a pint with John Quick and the boys for a proper chat about how they did stuff.
It would be good one day to grab a beer regardless, but I suspect there are several books to be written on how things were done. There were some very bright people in that building and some of them clearly had 'Cockney' persuations. biggrin

At the weekends I still find myself looking into the car while having a crafty ciggie after the family have gone to sleep and seeing the central turn knob pulsing with a red beat in tune with a heartbeat and find myself amazed at the little details of these cars that someone sourced or dreamt up. A lot of creative genius that down here would be accompanied by a mincing gate. biggrin

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Thursday 22nd November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
I seem to recall looking over a decade's worth of accounts and seeing some hefty pension contributions along with asset sale and 'toppy' leasebacks, along with the usual salary and dividends. I don't think those contributions were all for staff. wink
Yes, at least we agree there then, about a decade ago. The first sixteen years though...

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Thursday 22nd November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
TA14 said:
DonkeyApple said:
When you look at how many man hours it took to make a shell useable and to shape and fit bespoke doors this is one example of how using 21stC tech would have speeded up that aspect 10 fold and reduced labour demand.
People often say this but what would you do? Have the shells made in S.A. or Malasia for a lower labour rate? Build aluminium bodies - would that be any cheaper? Use injection techniques like Lotus and Westfield and produce lower quality shells?

(I would have gone down the woven matting route which TVR offered at the end but at an increased price which I found to be odd from a production view point.)
It's a very interesting area. NS's team reckognised the weakness and looked to use the SA operation that had pitched for the Noble business. As you mention, even PW looked to use Malaysia but failed in that aspect for whatever reason (possibly the same reason why many British ventures have failed in the FE) The point is that laying up a shell in traditional methods is labour intensive, there is certainly a strong arguement for having that job done in a place where labour is a fraction of the cost. The key is to control quality. The Germans like to use Poland and Slovenia for dirt cheap labour and high quality workmanship.

But at the same time, there has been for quite some time complete methods available that allow products from one mould to fit another within acceptable tollerances. The comical situation TVR were in was that every single door they ever made had to be bespoke matched to each shell. Treveor Cooper said it took at least one day to match the doors. Investing in making doors interchangeable between shells was a crucial aspect for saving noteable labour spend. But the door scenario is merely an examplar of the glorious way the factory was run.

There is no doubt that TVR were genuine masters of genius cost saving methods, there is real ingenuity in some of the routes they took but they always ran with the 19thC perspective that Northern labour was cheap enough to allow these wheezes. The reality for a long time in the UK, regardless of North or South is that the right labour is far from cheap. The labourer may earn little but the cost of employment is huge.
I don't think that justifies your ten fold statement.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Thursday 22nd November 2012
quotequote all
TA14 said:
I don't think that justifies your ten fold statement.
Employing a chap who took a day to fit a door when it should be less than hour isn't far off. wink. Round the hour and call it 8 fold assuming no comical tea breaks.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Thursday 22nd November 2012
quotequote all
TA14 said:
DonkeyApple said:
I seem to recall looking over a decade's worth of accounts and seeing some hefty pension contributions along with asset sale and 'toppy' leasebacks, along with the usual salary and dividends. I don't think those contributions were all for staff. wink
Yes, at least we agree there then, about a decade ago. The first sixteen years though...
As I've mentioned before I don't begrudge the man anything. It was his company and his money to take out via whatever tax efficient mechanisms available. If he hadn't risked his pension from his first career then nothing of what we all talk about would probably have existed. But it's a case of business semantics, you can see your revenue and unit sales are declining but you chose not to reduce your labour force while simultaneously switching from a dividend system that banks will be monitoring to a contributions one along with sale and leaseback of the yielding assets. wink

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Thursday 22nd November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
TA14 said:
I don't think that justifies your ten fold statement.
Employing a chap who took a day to fit a door when it should be less than hour isn't far off. wink. Round the hour and call it 8 fold assuming no comical tea breaks.
Without argueing about exact figures, door and boot fitting was tedious but you haven't justifed your claim for the vast majority of the bodyshell unless you're simply referring to 2nd and 3rd world labour rates on the cost side.
(FWIW I remember having a long chat to Miles Wilkins about this.)

Tvr Power

1,076 posts

205 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
El Shafto said:
Has anyone been on the 'reborn' section of this website lately?It makes scary reading, I quote - "currently in development: new Cerbera with 480 lb/ft Diesel engine drive train. This car will have enormous performance as you expect from TVR at a budget fuel consumption"....Say it ain't so? A Diesel TVR?!?!?!?
It was never going to happen at Tvr Power thats for sure !

Dom
What's the story behind the 'new' Tuscan that Str8Six have recently acquired?
Whatever TVRs are out there just remember these cars were actually part built with allocated chassis numbers in 2005 which allows you to register "New"

Dom
The salesman said it had been built by the ill-fated recent venture by NS. Was an LS conversion etc.
whistle Yawn Yawn

Dom
?

I thought you might be able to shed some light on the car, whether it was new or an old shell and whether it was an NS creation?
MK3 Tuscan Factory build with an an LS3 lump, Sparco seats etc ! shall i bore you with more info...



Dom

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
El Shafto said:
Has anyone been on the 'reborn' section of this website lately?It makes scary reading, I quote - "currently in development: new Cerbera with 480 lb/ft Diesel engine drive train. This car will have enormous performance as you expect from TVR at a budget fuel consumption"....Say it ain't so? A Diesel TVR?!?!?!?
It was never going to happen at Tvr Power thats for sure !

Dom
What's the story behind the 'new' Tuscan that Str8Six have recently acquired?
Whatever TVRs are out there just remember these cars were actually part built with allocated chassis numbers in 2005 which allows you to register "New"

Dom
The salesman said it had been built by the ill-fated recent venture by NS. Was an LS conversion etc.
whistle Yawn Yawn

Dom
?

I thought you might be able to shed some light on the car, whether it was new or an old shell and whether it was an NS creation?
MK3 Tuscan Factory build with an an LS3 lump, Sparco seats etc ! shall i bore you with more info...



Dom
Salient ones preferably. So it's an original body but put together in the recent venture as a 'recreation'?

Tvr Power

1,076 posts

205 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
El Shafto said:
Has anyone been on the 'reborn' section of this website lately?It makes scary reading, I quote - "currently in development: new Cerbera with 480 lb/ft Diesel engine drive train. This car will have enormous performance as you expect from TVR at a budget fuel consumption"....Say it ain't so? A Diesel TVR?!?!?!?
It was never going to happen at Tvr Power thats for sure !

Dom
What's the story behind the 'new' Tuscan that Str8Six have recently acquired?
Whatever TVRs are out there just remember these cars were actually part built with allocated chassis numbers in 2005 which allows you to register "New"

Dom
The salesman said it had been built by the ill-fated recent venture by NS. Was an LS conversion etc.
whistle Yawn Yawn

Dom
?

I thought you might be able to shed some light on the car, whether it was new or an old shell and whether it was an NS creation?
MK3 Tuscan Factory build with an an LS3 lump, Sparco seats etc ! shall i bore you with more info...



Dom
Salient ones preferably. So it's an original body but put together in the recent venture as a 'recreation'?
All original, same chassis, Ohlins shocks, "S" brakes, no body work mods, 6.2ltr Ls3 lump, Rusky just wasn’t willing to pay for further developments.

Dom




DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
Tvr Power said:
All original, same chassis, Ohlins shocks, "S" brakes, no body work mods, 6.2ltr Ls3 lump, Rusky just wasn’t willing to pay for further developments.

Dom


Thanks.

Where is the dash unit from and could it be retro-fitted to factory T cars? I'm guessing the answer to the latter is yes? But would it be worth it as a replacement to the original style?

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Tvr Power said:
All original, same chassis, Ohlins shocks, "S" brakes, no body work mods, 6.2ltr Ls3 lump, Rusky just wasn’t willing to pay for further developments.

Dom
Thanks.

Where is the dash unit from and could it be retro-fitted to factory T cars? I'm guessing the answer to the latter is yes? But would it be worth it as a replacement to the original style?
Could you post a 'photo please?

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
TA14 said:
Could you post a 'photo please?
Its the TVR 'Vulcan' that is for sale at Str8Six.

There is a thread here with a link to FB with pics but I'm not a FBer.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I'm assuming this is the 'recreation' that NS' final attempt at TVR cars produced?

Also intrigued as to where the name 'Vulcan' came from. On the TVR website the car was called a Tuscan and I did think that the wholly new model NS had been talking about had had quite an aggressive facelift and other changes.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
I'm assuming this is the 'recreation' that NS' final attempt at TVR cars produced?
I thought that as well initially but looking at: http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/Str8six/3537480513... it appears not. Or at least not the one that I was thinking of that was launched to the TVRCC select and had a large TV style screen in the centre of the dash.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
TA14 said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm assuming this is the 'recreation' that NS' final attempt at TVR cars produced?
I thought that as well initially but looking at: http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/Str8six/3537480513... it appears not. Or at least not the one that I was thinking of that was launched to the TVRCC select and had a large TV style screen in the centre of the dash.
That was the green Sag made by TVR when they were in a shed.

I'm under the impression that this is a Tuscan made when TVR gave up on using sheds and began work from a rehab clinic in Austria instead.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
That was the green Sag made by TVR when they were in a shed.
Finished off and polished up in the shed... anyway
DonkeyApple said:
I'm under the impression that this is a Tuscan made when TVR gave up on using sheds and began work from a rehab clinic in Austria instead.
How do you square that with:
Tvr Power said:
MK3 Tuscan Factory build ... Dom
Do you think that Dom considers the Austrian stuff to be factory built? Did they ship the jigs out to Austria and were they then in a fit state to be used? (I don't know.)

Are you there Dom?

JonRB

74,401 posts

271 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
That was the green Sag made by TVR when they were in a shed.
Indeed. And rumour has it that it was (allegedly) a customer car that had almost been completed, but not delivered, when TVR phoenixed and the customer did not get his deposit back. Allegedly. All very smelly.

Allegedly. smile

DonkeyApple said:
I'm under the impression that this is a Tuscan made when TVR gave up on using sheds and began work from a rehab clinic in Austria instead.
hehe

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
AIUI the timescale will be important for the chassis. To keep it type approved they have to make at least one car pa and I don't think that TVR would now qualify. Then you're down to SVAs or whatever, again AIUI.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
TA14 said:
DonkeyApple said:
That was the green Sag made by TVR when they were in a shed.
Finished off and polished up in the shed... anyway
DonkeyApple said:
I'm under the impression that this is a Tuscan made when TVR gave up on using sheds and began work from a rehab clinic in Austria instead.
How do you square that with:
Tvr Power said:
MK3 Tuscan Factory build ... Dom
Do you think that Dom considers the Austrian stuff to be factory built? Did they ship the jigs out to Austria and were they then in a fit state to be used? (I don't know.)

Are you there Dom?
I thought he was implying that it was just one of many part builds from when the factory closed. Many of which were pretty much complete and various garages have been finishing and selling for the last 6 years.

The new venture stuck in the LS and the retrim etc as part of their 'Recreation' ambitions?

I certainly don't believe it is a wholly new car just one that was never completed.

Still interested at what point it gained its new model name.

Tvr Power

1,076 posts

205 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
TA14 said:
DonkeyApple said:
That was the green Sag made by TVR when they were in a shed.
Finished off and polished up in the shed... anyway
DonkeyApple said:
I'm under the impression that this is a Tuscan made when TVR gave up on using sheds and began work from a rehab clinic in Austria instead.
How do you square that with:
Tvr Power said:
MK3 Tuscan Factory build ... Dom
Do you think that Dom considers the Austrian stuff to be factory built? Did they ship the jigs out to Austria and were they then in a fit state to be used? (I don't know.)

Are you there Dom?
The Tuscan was built in Blackpool not Austria, all Jigs and fixtures have been scrapped by NS, so there will be no more Tvrs built !

Dom



Tvr Power

1,076 posts

205 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
quotequote all
TA14 said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm assuming this is the 'recreation' that NS' final attempt at TVR cars produced?
I thought that as well initially but looking at: http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/Str8six/3537480513... it appears not. Or at least not the one that I was thinking of that was launched to the TVRCC select and had a large TV style screen in the centre of the dash.
DTA dash and Ecu

Dom