W140 S Class; am I mad?
Discussion
wiffmaster said:
Here's our old one:
Fuel wise, the S600 isn't considerably more to run than the lower models...
But, if anything goes wrong on a w140, it's generally big money to sort.
Great cars though - we sold the one in that pic for (I think) £2600 a few years back and it's was in pretty good nick.
Bargain. Can't find a V12 for that money anymore.Fuel wise, the S600 isn't considerably more to run than the lower models...
But, if anything goes wrong on a w140, it's generally big money to sort.
Great cars though - we sold the one in that pic for (I think) £2600 a few years back and it's was in pretty good nick.
This is a nice C140 V12;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-S600-COUPE-6000...
No I wouldn't and this is coming from someone who owned a classic merc E320 at a youngish age
When I looked at the W's I found the quality had dipped quite a bit for Mercedes, coupled with how they were big heavy cars with lots of outdated electronics . This factored in with age is a recipe for disaster , plus at the arse end of the market people will be pushing on cars that need big jobs done on them hence them selling.
I used to get picked up in one from Dublin Airport every week and TBH I found the quality from my W124 had dropped a bit. The driver also refereed to it in a heavy Irish accent as " a Grand car". Not in how it was great, in how every time it went tot he garage for anything it was at least a grand!
I'd still buy a classic barge if I was you, but would seek a simpler less complex Mercedes. I would hunt for a good W124 saloon , 190 or similar.
When I looked at the W's I found the quality had dipped quite a bit for Mercedes, coupled with how they were big heavy cars with lots of outdated electronics . This factored in with age is a recipe for disaster , plus at the arse end of the market people will be pushing on cars that need big jobs done on them hence them selling.
I used to get picked up in one from Dublin Airport every week and TBH I found the quality from my W124 had dropped a bit. The driver also refereed to it in a heavy Irish accent as " a Grand car". Not in how it was great, in how every time it went tot he garage for anything it was at least a grand!
I'd still buy a classic barge if I was you, but would seek a simpler less complex Mercedes. I would hunt for a good W124 saloon , 190 or similar.
As nice as the W124 can be, they'll never match the event of the majesty of the W140. The W140 is an absolutely super-tanker of a car, even by barge standards. They're ridiculously cool and lovely to drive, but yes, they're known to suffer expensive electronic issues. If that happens and it's too expensive to fix, just scrap the thing. There are still plenty out there though so there is no guarantee that your pride and joy will go bang (or fizzle).
I had an S320 on an R plate back in '09/'10 when I was 22ish, it was a cracking car, loads of kit, extremely comfy and not a bad steer either for something so big. Even with 220 bhp they go well once they're on the move and will happily cruise along at 120 leptons (in Germany 
) quietly.
Unfortunately it died due to ECU failure and is probably containing beans in your cupboard now.
) quietly.Unfortunately it died due to ECU failure and is probably containing beans in your cupboard now.
BigBen said:
Baryonyx said:
they're known to suffer expensive electronic issues.
Erm, no they are not.The ownership costs of cars like this transform over time, with the availability of cheap parts from scrapped cars - so replacing swathes of components would not cost nearly so much now as it did then. Back then some of the bills were fully eye widening.
His S320 was very different in character to the W124. It felt a special place to be which the W124 cannot deliver and was absolutely enormous outside and in. This is double edged of course, since they are a fat wobbly thing to drive, but I can see some people like that about them. They are very popular on the barge thread - as is every Mercedes of course.
ajmcampbell said:
Hmm the car in question is particularly appealing then... main problem, as ever for a 20yo, is insurance.
Quotes seem ludicrous given the leisurely pace of these old buses! Perhaps classic insurance the way to go, as will be solely high days and holidays use.
They're not slow cars - even the S320 has decent performance. The larger V8s feel pretty relentless on the motorway.Quotes seem ludicrous given the leisurely pace of these old buses! Perhaps classic insurance the way to go, as will be solely high days and holidays use.
Have you considered a Jaguar XJ? They don't seem that well liked on PH, but personally I prefer them to the W140. They're usefully smaller and are a lot better to drive. In my experience, they're more reliable and cheaper to run too. Just watch Jags for rust since they can be bad, but then this era of Mercedes are no stranger to rust either.
dbdb said:
BigBen said:
Baryonyx said:
they're known to suffer expensive electronic issues.
Erm, no they are not.The ownership costs of cars like this transform over time, with the availability of cheap parts from scrapped cars - so replacing swathes of components would not cost nearly so much now as it did then. Back then some of the bills were fully eye widening.
His S320 was very different in character to the W124. It felt a special place to be which the W124 cannot deliver and was absolutely enormous outside and in. This is double edged of course, since they are a fat wobbly thing to drive, but I can see some people like that about them. They are very popular on the barge thread - as is every Mercedes of course.
When I sold mine (bought for £1750 sold for £1500) it went abroad to the Ukraine, this is where I suspect all the decent cheap ones have ended up hence the dearth of them left in Blighty.
Ben
TwistingMyMelon said:
No I wouldn't and this is coming from someone who owned a classic merc E320 at a youngish age.
When I looked at the W's I found the quality had dipped quite a bit for Mercedes, coupled with how they were big heavy cars with lots of outdated electronics . This factored in with age is a recipe for disaster , plus at the arse end of the market people will be pushing on cars that need big jobs done on them hence them selling.
I used to get picked up in one from Dublin Airport every week and TBH I found the quality from my W124 had dropped a bit. The driver also refereed to it in a heavy Irish accent as " a Grand car". Not in how it was great, in how every time it went tot he garage for anything it was at least a grand!
I'd still buy a classic barge if I was you, but would seek a simpler less complex Mercedes. I would hunt for a good W124 saloon , 190 or similar.
Interesting, actually considered W124 before W140; have been a big fan of them since seeing the 300k mile versions rattling around Morocco as taxis while remaining as comfortable as your favourite armchair! I'd certainly fit in in Edinburgh too; see my recent post: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... ! Sadly though, the prices for one that isn't completely sh@gged have risen a great deal in recent times, and examples in my desired spec (late model S124 E280 wagon) are few and far between. 190E doesn't do it for me really, mainly because (to my eyes) has neither the balance of the W124 nor the sheer presence of a W140. Understand some will find this odd but there it is!When I looked at the W's I found the quality had dipped quite a bit for Mercedes, coupled with how they were big heavy cars with lots of outdated electronics . This factored in with age is a recipe for disaster , plus at the arse end of the market people will be pushing on cars that need big jobs done on them hence them selling.
I used to get picked up in one from Dublin Airport every week and TBH I found the quality from my W124 had dropped a bit. The driver also refereed to it in a heavy Irish accent as " a Grand car". Not in how it was great, in how every time it went tot he garage for anything it was at least a grand!
I'd still buy a classic barge if I was you, but would seek a simpler less complex Mercedes. I would hunt for a good W124 saloon , 190 or similar.
Grand car made me laugh! Great to hear your thought, A.
Baryonyx said:
As nice as the W124 can be, they'll never match the event of the majesty of the W140. The W140 is an absolutely super-tanker of a car, even by barge standards. They're ridiculously cool and lovely to drive, but yes, they're known to suffer expensive electronic issues. If that happens and it's too expensive to fix, just scrap the thing. There are still plenty out there though so there is no guarantee that your pride and joy will go bang (or fizzle).
Agree, the W140 is rather majestic. Had planned to pop a diplomatic flag on it for a laugh and pretend to be one of the ambassadors (quite a few embassies around the flat)! Plenty to go wrong I guess, and difficult as it was almost a crossover model between the bulletproof 80s models and the new generation of slightly more flimsy ones at the end of the 90s.Lugy said:
I had an S320 on an R plate back in '09/'10 when I was 22ish, it was a cracking car, loads of kit, extremely comfy and not a bad steer either for something so big. Even with 220 bhp they go well once they're on the move and will happily cruise along at 120 leptons (in Germany ) quietly.
Unfortunately it died due to ECU failure and is probably containing beans in your cupboard now.
Good to hear an ownership experience, sounds a similar situation to mine when you owned it! Couple of qs if you don't mind: firstly, what kind of nick was it in, and secondly, did the eventual failure cost you dear? Also who did you go to for insurance? Cheers A ) quietly.Unfortunately it died due to ECU failure and is probably containing beans in your cupboard now.
dbdb said:
My brother had a W140 in the late 1990s to early 2000s. It was vastly expensive to run back then and (his at least) was much more fragile than the Mercedes reputation would suggest. His S320 had a lot of electrical problems and a persistent misfire which was never cured. It was the long array of electrical faults which generated the big bills.
The ownership costs of cars like this transform over time, with the availability of cheap parts from scrapped cars - so replacing swathes of components would not cost nearly so much now as it did then. Back then some of the bills were fully eye widening.
His S320 was very different in character to the W124. It felt a special place to be which the W124 cannot deliver and was absolutely enormous outside and in. This is double edged of course, since they are a fat wobbly thing to drive, but I can see some people like that about them. They are very popular on the barge thread - as is every Mercedes of course.
More useful advice, cheers! Sad to hear the reliability wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Imagine they are something of a tank to drive, but my thinking was have the Mini for the fun stuff. The ownership costs of cars like this transform over time, with the availability of cheap parts from scrapped cars - so replacing swathes of components would not cost nearly so much now as it did then. Back then some of the bills were fully eye widening.
His S320 was very different in character to the W124. It felt a special place to be which the W124 cannot deliver and was absolutely enormous outside and in. This is double edged of course, since they are a fat wobbly thing to drive, but I can see some people like that about them. They are very popular on the barge thread - as is every Mercedes of course.
dbdb said:
They're not slow cars - even the S320 has decent performance. The larger V8s feel pretty relentless on the motorway.
Have you considered a Jaguar XJ? They don't seem that well liked on PH, but personally I prefer them to the W140. They're usefully smaller and are a lot better to drive. In my experience, they're more reliable and cheaper to run too. Just watch Jags for rust since they can be bad, but then this era of Mercedes are no stranger to rust either.
Hi there, not averse to an XJ; uncle ran an X308 as a smoker barge until the engine went bang a few years ago; was very comfy and surprisingly speedy for sure, but got the impression it spent a fair bit of time in the specialist! Wonder if a late XJ40 would be worth a look...Have you considered a Jaguar XJ? They don't seem that well liked on PH, but personally I prefer them to the W140. They're usefully smaller and are a lot better to drive. In my experience, they're more reliable and cheaper to run too. Just watch Jags for rust since they can be bad, but then this era of Mercedes are no stranger to rust either.
BigBen said:
One swallow does not a summer make. The main area to look out for is the aforementioned air-con system which is a dash out massive night mare to fix, have really not heard much about the electrics being problematic. They are from the pre-rust era at Mercedes so are not even so bad in that respect.
When I sold mine (bought for £1750 sold for £1500) it went abroad to the Ukraine, this is where I suspect all the decent cheap ones have ended up hence the dearth of them left in Blighty.
Ben
Heard of the air-con death, sounds a bit major but then again could always leave it if it went bang (used to no air con in the Mini!). Those I've seen don't seem too bad for rust, reckon you're right. Interesting to hear so many leave the country, much like the mass exodus of W123/4s to Morocco! When I sold mine (bought for £1750 sold for £1500) it went abroad to the Ukraine, this is where I suspect all the decent cheap ones have ended up hence the dearth of them left in Blighty.
Ben
Thanks all for the advice!
My dad's got a 1995 S600 he's had from new, parked up in Cyprus - over the years it deteriorated to the point of not being used, it's not turned a wheel in a couple of years.
Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
SuperPav said:
My dad's got a 1995 S600 he's had from new, parked up in Cyprus - over the years it deteriorated to the point of not being used, it's not turned a wheel in a couple of years.
Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
Hi Superpav, good to hear your views...Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
Thought the W140 was coil sprung throughout the MYs?
Equally weren't the self-destructing looms only a problem on early '91 cars?
Lot of toys to go wrong though!
ajmcampbell said:
SuperPav said:
My dad's got a 1995 S600 he's had from new, parked up in Cyprus - over the years it deteriorated to the point of not being used, it's not turned a wheel in a couple of years.
Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
Hi Superpav, good to hear your views...Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
Thought the W140 was coil sprung throughout the MYs?
Equally weren't the self-destructing looms only a problem on early '91 cars?
Lot of toys to go wrong though!
BigBen said:
Erm, no they are not.
I recall reading about the SAM units that connect the CANBUS wiring system. Now, I don't profess to possess a great understanding of car electronics, but the replacement cost of these units was something like £700 a go, and apparently replacing a broken one can be a real task as it's difficult to tell which one of something like twenty odd has failed! That's before considering the wiring loom. Not that they'll automatically blow up, you pay your money and take your chances but anecdotal reports suggest that complex wiring from the early 90's can be troublesome.
Baryonyx said:
BigBen said:
Erm, no they are not.
I recall reading about the SAM units that connect the CANBUS wiring system. Now, I don't profess to possess a great understanding of car electronics, but the replacement cost of these units was something like £700 a go, and apparently replacing a broken one can be a real task as it's difficult to tell which one of something like twenty odd has failed! That's before considering the wiring loom. Not that they'll automatically blow up, you pay your money and take your chances but anecdotal reports suggest that complex wiring from the early 90's can be troublesome.
t ton of research before buying one and indeed during my tenure as an owner.BigBen said:
ajmcampbell said:
SuperPav said:
My dad's got a 1995 S600 he's had from new, parked up in Cyprus - over the years it deteriorated to the point of not being used, it's not turned a wheel in a couple of years.
Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
Hi Superpav, good to hear your views...Ridiculously complex, something always goes wrong after 15 years... All the mechanical basics are fine and to be fair the body has held up well, but things like air suspension, engine wiring looms and ECU's, rear blind and seat electrics, vacuum leaks, soft door close, engine sensors, front headlamp wipers, gearbox control module, will all give you trouble at some point.
They're also parts that are difficult to come by as used, and you'll never stomach the cost new from a MB dealer (1,000 for an engine wiring harness IIRC)
Quality of pre 1994/1993 Mercs is better, 1995 onwards has better features etc. but reliability suffered.
HTH
Thought the W140 was coil sprung throughout the MYs?
Equally weren't the self-destructing looms only a problem on early '91 cars?
Lot of toys to go wrong though!
Incidentally, they're great cars, just so long as you don't go into it expecting to never have to replace anything other than brake pads. Comfy, and the V12 is sublime.
Wiring harnesses were always a problem I think, even after they realised the cock-up of the earlier cars. Ours had it done under warranty IIRC...
kapiteinlangzaam said:
Loom problems was were more prevalent on the earlier cars, but could affect cars of any model year.
My 96 facelift died of either HGF or loom failure (causing a mis-fire). It wasnt worth investigation so sold it on for parts.
My brother's W140 had loom problems. I can't remember the year of it, but it was a facelifted car. My 96 facelift died of either HGF or loom failure (causing a mis-fire). It wasnt worth investigation so sold it on for parts.
It also had a persistent misfire, together with other rather esoteric problems which were never solved, but seemed linked. When the electrical maladies struck, the car's starter would not turn and the dash lights would gradually dim down to the point they were almost out - then everything in the car would be dead, except for the driver's side electric window which would twitch up and down a few millimetres very rapidly for as long as the ignition was on.
Turning off the ignition would sometimes repeat the performance - but more often than not the car would just start normally as if nothing had happened. It would happen in spells - when the electrics were misbehaving, the car would also go through periods of misfiring. The problem appeared sporadically at first; after a while though, it happened more often than not. When he sold the car it was a struggle to get the thing to drive to the lucky dealer who had taken it as a trade in.
It was an impressive car when it was running right. It was very smooth riding, refined and had a good turn of speed even though it was only the S320. It's vastness lent it an air of real importance - but was also its Achilles heel. They really are huge. I found it too big, to be honest.
There is an article in this months Classic Mercedes re: biodegradable loonms. Mainly a W124 issue but now showing signs of affecting other models including the W140 and to M120 V12 is specifically mentioned by the Specialist. Wouldn't put me off a nice W140 S600 if I could find a nice one for sensible money though.
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