RE: Driven: Porsche 911 Carrera S (991)

[kbf1981]

HollywoodStig said:

Sounds like a nice car, still 10% away from £100k though... It's like a 458 listing at £180k? (I may be wrong) and then invoicing at. £210k+ with 'essential' options...

A nicely optioned 458 is around £190k. A nicely optioned 991S would be around £90k.

[whipround]

TheDeadPrussian said:

SWoll said:

TheDeadPrussian said:

I have a deposit on a 991 and these first reviews I have to say are not that promising. I went to Frankfurt to view the car and I have to admit I was initially underwhelmed by it, but the design details have grown on me in the past couple of months and I am learning to appreciate the differences.

However, £97K or so (in my chosen specification) is a lot of money for something I am not sure is going to prove different (or exciting) enough to make me want to move from my current 997.2 GT3. I think I may sit on my option to purchase for a while longer….

Put simply this is not an F430 to 458 moment.

At this level of the 911 ladder I don't think that is necesarily a fair comparison TBH. The 458 is a single model and isn't expected to be the jack of all trades a lower level 911 is.

Perhaps when the new GT3 or Turbo are released we might be able to assess how far the 991 has moved the game on.

And if I was you I would definately be sticking with the 997.2 GT3 for a while yet.

The F430 to 458 was not really a direct comparison to the 911, just an analogy. That is, that when the 458 appeared, almost instantly the F430 looked dated and 430 owners felt an urge to move on. 997 to 991, the urge isn't there yet!

I will be sticking with the 997.2 GT3 for now I think, and the 991 GT3 will have to be quite special to persuade me to throw another great sum of money at it, ‘incremental’ or ‘degrees’ are not words I want to read in any review; I want 'game changing' and 'astonishing'!

Coxy

http://www.jaguar.com/gb/en/about_jaguar/news_and_...

Far more interesting than a 911, I've put my order in

Mat

[mollytherocker]

whipround said:

Coxy

http://www.jaguar.com/gb/en/about_jaguar/news_and_...

Far more interesting than a 911, I've put my order in

Mat

That is a fabulous looking thing isnt it.

MTR

[mollytherocker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Maybe, but I would wager that most new buyers dont care much about these things and wouldnt really understand them.

Most will go for looks and status.

MTR

[HollywoodStig]

whipround said:

Coxy

http://www.jaguar.com/gb/en/about_jaguar/news_and_...

Far more interesting than a 911, I've put my order in

Mat

Hmmm a 'new' AM V8... Will be flavour of the month, for about a month.

[OldBob]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In my opinion only it is a bit too samey again. Leveraging further the "iconic" shape and huge following it has (and why wouldn't they, they're great cars!)
There's not enough change or price positioning to attract anybody that really wasn't already sold on the 911 concept in the first place though is there? It won't be attracting anyone who wants it as a usable 2+2 either, although it will probably successfully move the 911 concept game on incrementally...again..

Comparisons with Fezza's, lambo's re speed, track times etc are pointless really because they're completely different propositions and its fun to see the Porsche following applying the same arguments that are used in comparing a GTR to a 911 :-)

Without trying to reopen debates in this thread, I hope Porsche eventually offer a proper mid engine sports car with sufficient power that would IMO draw a new audience.

I'm trying to get a test drive arranged to have a more valid opinion too but I think you're right...the obvious choice is the GTR :-):-) unashamed flame bait - sorry please note the smiley's

[Fetchez la vache]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but to be honest it sounds like Porsche are offering a better car for those owners who simply want to prance about in them (ok a little harsh, lets just say "commute") and not driving them to 80%+ of their ability, and that takes by far the lions share of sales, whilst proper "I can look after myself" PH drivers ( ) can order with the manual and still have a really rather fantastic car, leaving the door open to potentially (potentially... who am I kidding...) release even more driver focussed cars in a multitude of special editions to keep the 991/911 "fresh".

Sounds like good business sense to me...
Only wish I could justify spending that amount on a car in the first place. Ho hum..

[jcl]

The comparisons with the 458 people make seem a little mute to me. The 991 looks like a 997 on growth hormones whereas the 458 looks like Natalie Portman lying down with a pair of wheels under her ankles and shoulders.

If you were in the position to purchase a 458 would you really be looking at 911's?

[mollytherocker]

jcl said:

The comparisons with the 458 people make seem a little mute to me. The 991 looks like a 997 on growth hormones whereas the 458 looks like Natalie Portman lying down with a pair of wheels under her ankles and shoulders.

If you were in the position to purchase a 458 would you really be looking at 911's?

Totally different markets. One is a VERY special car to be used occasionally, the other is a very nice daily.

Love your Portman comment.

MTR

[911owner86]

I love 911's and always have. Usually the ones who put them down have never owned one, or are just the "look at me" sort of people who think they look cool in their red F430.
The new 991 is an amazing car. It drives and looks stunning. OK it is not a 993 but hell, we are in the year 2011, things move on.
If a businessman wants comfort and a pdk box. What is wrong with that.
For the die hards, there are manual gearboxes and sport buttons available so stop moaning about the pdk boxes and soft rides.
I just cant wait for the GT and Turbo models, Ohhhhh yes.

[911owner86]

Sorry I forgot to mention.
The GTR is a chav car.

I would buy a 911 over a GTR any day of the week.

[Chipper]

911owner86 said:

I love 911's and always have. Usually the ones who put them down have never owned one, or are just the "look at me" sort of people who think they look cool in their red F430.
The new 991 is an amazing car. It drives and looks stunning. OK it is not a 993 but hell, we are in the year 2011, things move on.
If a businessman wants comfort and a pdk box. What is wrong with that.
For the die hards, there are manual gearboxes and sport buttons available so stop moaning about the pdk boxes and soft rides.
I just cant wait for the GT and Turbo models, Ohhhhh yes.

Which dealership do you work for

[kbf1981]

jcl said:

The comparisons with the 458 people make seem a little mute to me. The 991 looks like a 997 on growth hormones whereas the 458 looks like Natalie Portman lying down with a pair of wheels under her ankles and shoulders.

If you were in the position to purchase a 458 would you really be looking at 911's?

Yes, the 911 is a practical daily driver, the 458....because you can't easily park it in Asda and expect to come back to it without dents etc., or someone having keyed it, isn't.

You'd have a 458 and a 911.....unless you had a family, in which case you'd have a 458 and an M3 / M5 / RR.

[whipround]

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/jaguar-cx16-rev...

Jag has 485bhp, 0-60 in 4.4 seconds and is supposed to be half the price, and its British.

[SeventyThree]

whipround said:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/jaguar-cx16-rev...

Jag has 485bhp, 0-60 in 4.4 seconds and is supposed to be half the price, and its British.

If they ever build it.

And if they do, in true 'concept to production' tradition it will be less powerful, heavier, slower, uglier, and more expensive than originally promised.

Just look at that new Toyota coupe.

[SeventyThree]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well perhaps not the greatest example, but you get my point I'm sure.

Jaguar have been banging on about supposed new sports cars for years, and Auto Express/Top Gear lap it up without fail.

There's been various concept Jags on the TG TV show, none of which have come to light yet.

[Johnboy Mac]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

?

One of them is an 911, for sure.

[handbraketurn]

Looks are growing on me, the S spoiler looks quite purposeful when up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNK_gZ-qvyo

Still find £100k a bit hard to pallet. Meaning the GT3 and RS are probably going to be 458 money too.

[anonymous-user]

handbraketurn said:

Looks are growing on me, the S spoiler looks quite purposeful when up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNK_gZ-qvyo

Still find £100k a bit hard to pallet. Meaning the GT3 and RS are probably going to be 458 money too.

The 458 is north of £180k.