RE: Time for tea? Senna makes his mark

[dinkel]

Wikipedia: "Senna's best result of the 1984 season came at the Monaco Grand Prix, the first wet weather race of the season. Qualifying 13th on the grid, he made steady progress in climbing through the field, passing Niki Lauda for second on lap 19. He quickly began to cut the gap to race leader Alain Prost, but before he could attack Prost the race was stopped on lap 31 for safety reasons, as the rain had grown even heavier. At the time the race was stopped Senna was catching Prost at 4 seconds per lap.[19] Senna finally passed Prost during the 32nd lap at the end of which the red flag was shown. However according to the rules, the positions counted were those from the last lap completed by every driver, lap 31, at which point Prost was still leading. Senna's second place was his first podium in Formula One, and his performances in rainy conditions became a hallmark of his career."

Coming from Ronnie Peterson, Lauda and Depailler: to me Senna seemed to be the obvious follow up favourite F1 driver.

[Midgster]

andoverben said:

And the comment was made in it that the other Drivers were generally arsing around, cutting corners, driving through the Pits and noticably showing off to an audience

......once they had realised they didn't have a chance in hell of catching Senna!

[andoverben]

not that I remember, although it does Say Alan Smith Retired as result of treating it like a rally cross circuit and bouncing the car down the Grass!

Doesn't surprise me, Senna was a brilliant driver but some times he won because he wanted it more than everyone else and was willing to win at all costs - one thing that comes out in the book time and time again is that he had far more pole positions than podiums and one of the reasons was because he couldn't bear to come second and if he found himself in that situation would take more and more risks until he was either leading or in the Gravel

[belleair302]

Didn't John Surtees after watching the race call up ferrari and tell them to sign Senna before somebody else did??

[Fittster]

andoverben said:

I have been reading the Senna Book (I forget who it is by, it is in the Loo at home) And the comment was made in it that the other Drivers were generally arsing around, cutting corners, driving through the Pits and noticably showing off to an audience whereas Senna and Prost were out to prove something. Interestingly as they were both new drivers (to F1) they shared a Hire Car from the Airport to save costs - which considering how much they hated each other other a few years later made me smile when I read it.

It doesn't take away what was a fantastic drive - would love to watch the whole thing does anyone have a link to it somewhere?

It was their very first meeting that was to set the tone of their relationships down the years.

"I remember it very well. In the spring of 1984, the new Nürburgring was opened, and there was a celebrity race for Grand Prix drivers of the past and present, in Mercedes road cars. I was coming from Geneva to Frankfurt on a scheduled flight, and Ayrton was due to land half an hour before, so Gerd Kremer of Mercedes asked me if I would bring him to the track. On the way we chatted, and he was very pleasant. Then we got to the track, and practised the cars. I was on pole, with Ayrton second - after that he didn't talk to me any more! It seemed funny at the time. Then in the race, I took the lead - and he pushed me off the track after half a lap. So that was a good start..."

http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm

Always a Prost fan myself.

[Pseudonym17]

andoverben said:

not that I remember, although it does Say Alan Smith Retired as result of treating it like a rally cross circuit and bouncing the car down the Grass!

Doesn't surprise me, Senna was a brilliant driver but some times he won because he wanted it more than everyone else and was willing to win at all costs - one thing that comes out in the book time and time again is that he had far more pole positions than podiums and one of the reasons was because he couldn't bear to come second and if he found himself in that situation would take more and more risks until he was either leading or in the Gravel

Reminds me of Ricky Bobby-"If you aint first, You're last"
Also the documentary is amazing, get the extended cut if you can because you won't want it to end!

[dinkel]

Fittster said:

andoverben said:

I have been reading the Senna Book (I forget who it is by, it is in the Loo at home) And the comment was made in it that the other Drivers were generally arsing around, cutting corners, driving through the Pits and noticably showing off to an audience whereas Senna and Prost were out to prove something. Interestingly as they were both new drivers (to F1) they shared a Hire Car from the Airport to save costs - which considering how much they hated each other other a few years later made me smile when I read it.

It doesn't take away what was a fantastic drive - would love to watch the whole thing does anyone have a link to it somewhere?

It was their very first meeting that was to set the tone of their relationships down the years.

"I remember it very well. In the spring of 1984, the new Nürburgring was opened, and there was a celebrity race for Grand Prix drivers of the past and present, in Mercedes road cars. I was coming from Geneva to Frankfurt on a scheduled flight, and Ayrton was due to land half an hour before, so Gerd Kremer of Mercedes asked me if I would bring him to the track. On the way we chatted, and he was very pleasant. Then we got to the track, and practised the cars. I was on pole, with Ayrton second - after that he didn't talk to me any more! It seemed funny at the time. Then in the race, I took the lead - and he pushed me off the track after half a lap. So that was a good start..."

http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm

Always a Prost fan myself.

They were a fab team in the Hondas!

[GTIAlex06]

Would love to this kind of thing happen today, although it obviously never would...what a shame.

[Motorrad]

It's all the car, bloody motorsport always is. Hang on a minute..............

[1954etype]

Fittster said:

It was their very first meeting that was to set the tone of their relationships down the years.

"I remember it very well. In the spring of 1984, the new Nürburgring was opened, and there was a celebrity race for Grand Prix drivers of the past and present, in Mercedes road cars. I was coming from Geneva to Frankfurt on a scheduled flight, and Ayrton was due to land half an hour before, so Gerd Kremer of Mercedes asked me if I would bring him to the track. On the way we chatted, and he was very pleasant. Then we got to the track, and practised the cars. I was on pole, with Ayrton second - after that he didn't talk to me any more! It seemed funny at the time. Then in the race, I took the lead - and he pushed me off the track after half a lap. So that was a good start..."

http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm

Always a Prost fan myself.

I was too until I saw 'Senna'. A real shame that Prost used his relationship with Ballestre to get Senna excluded when he went through the escape road and rejoined the track. Prost was that good that he didn't need to cheat. A bit like when Alonso blocked Hamilton in Hungary in the pits when they were team mates - resulting in Hamilton being unable to put in a final qualifying lap. Shame when great drivers have to resort to these tactics.

[decadence]

To even suggest somehow Senna only won this cause he took it seriously is laughable!!
Yes it was a 'fun' race but I'll bet ever driver wanted to win this before the hit the track. The fact Senna was head ans shoulders above everyone else is cause he was a genius.

All the Mercs were tested by Stirling Moss apparently, to see if they were all equal, and they loosened up the rear to make them a bit more..... 'fun', yet Senna tamed the car.

After the event when a 24 year old handed their buts back on a plate...of course they would cry out that they weren't even trying....

Put any racer in a car against other racers and they win want to win...simple as that...

even in Meastros!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_sS011854

[Fittster]

decadence said:

To even suggest somehow Senna only won this cause he took it seriously is laughable!!
Yes it was a 'fun' race but I'll bet ever driver wanted to win this before the hit the track. The fact Senna was head ans shoulders above everyone else is cause he was a genius

So he wasn't out qualified by Prost then who got knocked off the track for his troubles?

[RichB]

Robmarriott said:

M666 EVO said:

It is the one film I am gagging to see at the moment. The missus says no though so I am going to have to send her out for a night... Maybe tomorrow

Make her watch it. My missus who has no interest in motorsport was glued to the TV for the whole extended cut.

Some of you lot married the wrong women! My wife understands my pasison for cars and much of it has rubbed off on her. We went to see "Senna" the first week it was on local release, foillowed by dinner out. Tell them to get on message!

[trackdemon]

Robmarriott said:

Make her watch it. My missus who has no interest in motorsport was glued to the TV for the whole extended cut.

This! ^^^^^

My gf has no interest in motorsport other than what I tell her She loved the Senna film, was in floods of tears at the end.... much like the rest of the cinema.

[Welshwonder]

Fittster said:

So he wasn't out qualified by Prost then who got knocked off the track for his troubles?

If Prost drove a bit faster, he wouldn't have been knocked out of the way!

[Johnboy Mac]

For anyone to even slightly imply that Senna was the only one who was truly racing, really ain't got a clue.

[911stu]

Vocal Minority said:

Without wanting to widdle all over a great story, and not disputing the credentials of a Mr A Senna for a moment, but this always gets blown a smidge out of proportion, as the other drivers were rather startled by how seriously Senna was taking it compared to them...

If you really think that you can put a grid full of racing drivers in cars on a track and they are not all going to try 110% then your on the wrong web site !!!

[PascalBuyens]

pSyCoSiS said:

Senna was absolutely amazing at what he did.

You guys seen his film / documentary?

He was on a totally different level.....

Yeah, seen it, loved it...

And what I've always thought just seems to be confirmed by that: he was a genius at what he did, and somehow... looking at the footage right before his fatal race, you'd swear he know he wasn't going to make it...

He'll always be the greatest in my eyes, not just for his driving, but also for stopping in the middle of the track and saving Eric Comas' life.

[rockymount]

Podie said:

Wasn't Senna a replacement driver for someone else who dropped out?

belleair302 said:

Didn't John Surtees after watching the race call up ferrari and tell them to sign Senna before somebody else did??

Hi chaps, sure you didn’t set your language preference to Brazilian or something for the vid ???

as the commentator at 0:24 to 0:31 clearly says ………..

“In the lead now on lap five Ayton Senna the 24 year old Brazilian who took over Emerson Fittipaldi’s car at the last moment“

– just guessing, but perhaps even then, fellow Brazilian Emerson realised Senna’s potential and gave him that drive to give him a better chance?

Then John Surtees at 1:26 to 1:35 says ………….

“It was after that, that I dropped a little note and said if you want to put your team in order and get the right driver, you should take Senna ……….and that was to Enzo Ferrari”

– another shrewd successful racing driver me thinks who also realised Senna’s potential

Not surprised Senna won as he truly was the ‘rain master’ …… as this vid of him at Donighton Park in 1993 clearly shows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU8pWyfyDIM

Mind you WARNING !!! DON’T ….. REPEAT DON’T play this vid with the sound ON ……. unless you’re feeling particularly suicidal that is ………..and there was me thinking Bette Midler’s version was crp …….. this however really takes the biscuit ………. “Wind Beneath My Arse”

Oh and just in case you hadn’t selected Brazilian and just happen to be Geordie’s, here’s those quotes again in Geordie speak

“Ah the leed neeo on lap 5 Ayton Senna the 24 yeor aad Brazilian whe tyeuk owor Emerson Fittipaldi’s screeve at the last ma”

an

“It wes eftor that, that ah dropped fair neete an' said if yee want tuh put yor team in ordor an' git the reet drivor, yee shud tek Senna ……….and that wes tuh Enzo Ferrari”

heaps of fun effortlessly translating at ;

http://www.whoohoo.co.uk/main.asp

[johntennyson]

I'm not surprised to see Denny Hulme well up there, too.

I remember about a decade ago seeing him in a Cooper Formula Junior during the Monterey Historic races at Laguna Seca. I wish I had video of how he closed on period F1 and F2 cars with his A-series- powered car through turn two with beautiful, smooth four-wheel drifts (not the current powersliding crap) lap after lap, while the other cars seemed to panic and tip-toe around.

Just the difference between a World Champion and amateur hackers like me.