RE: SOTW: Rover 825i Sterling

[slarnge]

Chicharito said:

Ow!i thought it was wood.You just burst my bubble.

[Chicharito]

Right on cue... 'Knowing Me, Knowing Yule' is on UK Gold.

With his 'Rover Vee-tesse Fastback'.

[carinaman]

red_rover said:

Also from CAR magazine in 1993 who pitted the 620SLi against the BMW 318i, Ford Mondeo Ghia and Citroen Xantia:

“Assemble these four cars for appraisal by an unprejudiced public and the Rover would win hands down. No question. It is a winner. If we’re talking class – and that’s what the upper echelons of the M2 sector are all about – the 620SLi exudes it. It is not as roomy as appearances suggest, it does not perform with great distinction, and it’s no more fun to drive (arguably less) than the Ford Mondeo. But it scores handsomely for comfort, refinement, quietness and build quality. Above all, it imbues the driver with a sense of it’s good-to-be-here well-being that its rivals cannot match. It has style, it has image, it has class”.

Or in 1999 when What Car pitted the Rover 75 and the BMW 3-Series (E46) against each other with the title 'When Rover beat BMW'.

Top Gear (with a young Clarkson) claimed the R17 (the MK2 800) was just as competent as the BMW E34 - see below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf4JkMk_tAg&t=1...

Edited by red_rover on Saturday 3rd December 16:08

But since then, CAR Magazine backtracked and said 'We were wrong about the Rover 600', even referencing the article itself I won't have time to ferret around looking for the issue this year. I don't have an axe to grind, I used to have a Honda powered 600. It's not as resistant to rust as my Toyota of the same age, the stone chips on the bonnet haven't perforated.


The 1982 Audi 100 C3 was a CAR Magazine darling winning many of their Giant tests until I think the E34 came along. I remember their Giant Test with the Alfa 164, red Rover 827 fastback, E34 and something else. Or perhaps that's it. The only criticisms they had of the 100 at the time was the size of it for the accommodation and the ventilation. I can't remember who did that piece towards the end of an issue that said 'This is all the car you could ever need' that featured monochrome pics along some winding moorland roads. I'm tempted to say LJKS, but could be wrong. I've tinkered with a few 100 C3s and really like the bank vault like build quality.

Regarding Balmoral Green's comments about positioning and a poster being deluded, that Metros, Maestros and Montegos gained MG badging wasn't just their equivalent of the Ford XR Monicker? Just branding and positioning as the sportified versions?


The late Russell Bulgin did a column in CAR about the facelifted 800 when it was released mentioning how it had given the 800 a classier, more upmarket vibe. He said that they weren't allowed to change the doors so the redesigned front and back end had to have swage lines that aligned with those in the doors. After that they realised the door pressings were worn out and needed replacement anyway so they could if they'd wanted altered the door skin pressings as part of the facelift.


Regarding that £1300 Coupe in the classifieds, I love that olive green colour, I love it on the 400s too. The wording in the advert isn't really selling it to me and I think it's a bit strong at that money given what you can get for not much more.

Edited by carinaman on Sunday 4th December 03:43

[rumple]

This has been a great row, what forums are all about, my take on em, I worked as a yts tosspot in a local garage, we looked after 3 of em, think they were e reg though could be wrong, they were first year of production top of the range brand new jobs, they had gearbox problems as well, I remember picking em up for servicing etc. couldn't believe how smooth they were but there again I was used to mk1 escorts etc, thing is they just seemed really dull to me, I used to use the bosses sd1 3500 and the 827 seemed alot more modern but no way would I have one over a sd1, just somat missing found them bland tbh, but there again I always had a very low opinion of bl/Austin rover/rover thought to much damage had been done in the seventies, lack of investment was something often repeated in the history of these cars, badge engineering is another pet hate of mine, that's why I dislike vag, but at least their cars are decent bl were dire, despite having friends and family work in longbridge I could never like the product

[rumple]

Forgot to add, I always looked at them as the lowest of the low don't really care where they were aimed

[slarnge]

Im very impressed with the 75.I have a few cars but if i want a floaty, comfy ride i grab the Rover keys.

[Madmatt74]

Or you could have this for a few pennies more!

If only i needed another car.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-ROVER-820-VITESSE-G...

[Max M4X WW]

Not sure if this has been posted but check the interior..

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

[Balmoral Green]

SWoll said:

Just hopped on and can't believe this is still going on

My last comment on the subject is in response to this from BG

Balmoral Green said:

It was a rare perception though

It really wouldn't appear so would it? Based on the majority of posters on this thread who have expressed an opinion it would appear it was commonly held. Sorry if this comes as a surprise to you having been as involved as you were, but you appear to be very much outnumbered in your beliefs in this case.

Well, I think people are getting their decades mixed up, or lumping the eighties, nineties and noughties in all together (of which more later, maybe even a separate thread?).

I jumped into this regarding comments that were made about the cars being presented as some sort of BMW beater at launch, and then it went off at a tangent about the way the public saw the brand as a whole, and I disagreed. In the late nineties, and into the noughties, maybe. But in the eighties when 200 and 800 were launched? No way. I stick to my version of the way the cars were seen by Joe Public. It was a big three mindset, and that was that. Go and look at the SMMT website and check market shares. It was a very different landscape.

SWoll said:

I look forward to crossing horns again with you in the future.

Yes, I did take it to heart, and threw my dummy out. But it seemed to me that there were too many folks posting that their dad had one, suggesting that they were in short trousers at the time perhaps? and dismissing my recollection, although I was there.

I reckon there are some retrospective or revisionist views flying around here, being back dated to the eighties. And I'm saying nope, it wasn't quite like that chaps.

A good example is the "A Rover to beat BMW head on" headline or something along those lines. But that's going to be a nineties phrase, there's no way anyone would have said that at launch, because it would have made no sense, and been out of the context of the way things were in the early-mid eighties. If you look at what BMW were at the time, and at what AR were at the time, it would have been as daft as saying "A Rover to beat Lexus head on" (not least because Lexus didn't even exist ). It's from a decade later when it would have worked, but not in April 84 when the 'new' Rover was reborn with the 200, and in 86 when 800 launched. We'd only just gotten Allegros out of the show room, and BMW were a different car company entirely to what they became a decade later. Such comparisons would not have been made at that time. The most we had was Harold Musgrave saying the car would compete in Germany, as AR had a decent market share there, as they did in other European markets like France & Italy. I can understand the aspirational direction the company would later take, but at the time, the big three was nearly the whole of the market, and competing there was the only place to make conquest sales. We even had 'Conquest sale' bonuses.

The eighties were very different, and the customers were very different. The nineties saw huge changes, not least in the market share of the big three, with additional choice becoming available, and being taken. Showrooms were different, salesmen were different, the buyers were different, and very, VERY, Catholic in their tastes and attitudes, I was trying to get this across, and failing

Anyway, I'm going to take this idea further with a separate thread, and hopefully we'll have some of the older PH'ers contributing, with what it was like to sell, or to be a buyer, at the time. Seventies into the eighties, and then the sea change of the nineties and noughties.

In the meantime, I'm sticking with my eighties view of the AR brand, for both seller and buyer alike, and you lot can stick with your retrospective 600/75 view being backdated to 200/800, and even Metro/Meastro/Montego as a cut above.

Anyone got that reprint from 1984 of the Rover 213S versus the Lexus LS200?

[Balmoral Green]

andyps said:

My take is that Rover were positioned as a luxury alternative to Ford/Vauxhall, albeit with a degree of sportiness (at least until BMW took over and wouldn't allow that). There was no intention to compete with BMW, just to suggest that you got the luxury of the Ghia trim Ford offered with any car in the Rover range. So were they positioned about Ford/Vauxhall? - possibly, but as a way to differentiate from them rather than to be better than them.

I would absolutely agree with the earlier comment about the typical user of a company car only having a choice from the three manufacturers, pretty much the case until the mid 90s for many.

Thanks, I needed that

carinaman said:

Regarding Balmoral Green's comments about positioning and a poster being deluded, that Metros, Maestros and Montegos gained MG badging wasn't just their equivalent of the Ford XR Monicker? Just branding and positioning as the sportified versions?

And that

It was the big three, head to head.

75% of MOP thought so too.

[tomoleeds]

I HAD ONE OF THEM AROUND 1995, A SILVER MANUAL 820 ,4 DOOR WAS ONE OF THE BETTER ROVERS, BECAUSE I SELL CARS I CAN TELL YOU WAS AS NICE TO DRIVE AS A BMW AT THE TIME. PRETTY QUICK AND COOMFY. GOOD CHOICE RIGGERS,!!

[Jellymonster]

Max M4X WW said:

Not sure if this has been posted but check the interior..

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

That is lovely

[Madmatt74]

Jellymonster said:

Max M4X WW said:

Not sure if this has been posted but check the interior..

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

That is lovely

I'd say that was a cut above what Ford/Vauxhall had at the time...and even now!
I always thought larger Rovers were a cheap alternative to the Jags inside.
The 75 was rushed out to complete with the S Type and was the better car and certainly better than anything Ford or Vauxhall had in terms of comfort if not handling or pace.
I dont remember anything else in the price range with piped leather with electric rear seats as an option?

[Balmoral Green]

Madmatt74 said:

I'd say that was a cut above what Ford/Vauxhall had at the time...and even now!

And I wouldn't disagree, it is lovely, even a BMW beater

[bangs drum] But it is a 1999.

[tdm34ds]

Balmoral Green said:

Madmatt74 said:

I'd say that was a cut above what Ford/Vauxhall had at the time...and even now!

And I wouldn't disagree, it is lovely, even a BMW beater

[bangs drum] But it is a 1999.

Be Careful BG the bosche lovers will take umbrage...

I sold Rovers in that era and they where no where near as bad as they made them out to be

[bencollins]

find it bizarre the cognescenti call these outmoded at launch, they were the first exec car to have 16v engines in the whole range, werent they ? or at least 80% of the range.

[Tea Pot One]

I had an 827 Vitesse manual for 4 years from !992 to 1996 and loved it. Nothing really went wrong with engine or trim ... I remember it fondly

[blueg33]

I had one like this



827 Vitesse in BRG, and it was a good car for its day, faster than a BMW 5 series. Had a very memorable drive 4 up boot full of wine from South of France on the autoroute with the trip computer showing an average speed of 105mph. It didn't even slow down on the inclines.

[Leoparky]

Lovely car, KV6 engine though is a bit of a pig (as sts the cylinder head gasket).....I have had loads of Series 1 and series 2 800's, I fell in love with em when I was a traffic plod in the West Mids. The 827's went very well, wallowy in the corners with all the weight in the back but the Honda 2.7 ran forever. The auto's were the weak point, they would break and then break again.

Good shed......try and find a Montego now, we had them as area cars (2.0 efi not Turbo)

[slarnge]

Yes!now your talking,the 827,what a kick down they had!

blueg33 said:

I had one like this



827 Vitesse in BRG, and it was a good car for its day, faster than a BMW 5 series. Had a very memorable drive 4 up boot full of wine from South of France on the autoroute with the trip computer showing an average speed of 105mph. It didn't even slow down on the inclines.