RE: Driven: Toyota GT 86

[dtrump]

pleased to hear it drives so well

but cant get over the looks. its nearly 2012 ffs, expected better

[Dave Hedgehog]

Sounds fantastic

Problem I would have is the real world performance, your going to spend most of your life with mid sized German oil burners, modern hot hatches and "barry" cars (chipped fiests ST's and Corsa VXR's)glued to your back bumper

The local barrys are the main reason I have sold my R32 DSG, low 6's 0-60s just do not cut it any more

[Kawasicki]

i'm very excited about this car. Performance seems very similar to the E30 M3, which, in my opinion, is more than fast enough for me.

I really hope that the car does not repeat what happened with the Nissan 350Z, which the vast majority of journalists also hailed as superb, but which, also in my opinion, didn't have a lot of depth in terms of driving enjoyment.

[J4mmin]

With all due you've missed the point of it I think. By the sounds of things so far its a true drivers car designed from the offset to be an engaging, visceral experience of a drive that you constantly conversing with during a hoon rather than a tweaked (no matter how heavily) mass market product designed to meet varying peoples needs. All those models you've mentioned there no matter how capable have only been adapted from their humdrum siblings by turning most the sliders up and and a few down, and many are largely sold on performance stats, looks, and mod cons with electronic management to aid progress not involvement, and so on which is all well and good but although it makes them a performance car it doesn't neccesarily make them a true drivers car.

As others have said this is what makes cars like the DC2, MK1 MR2, or what I think is a great example stated earlier the S2K such great cars when on paper they can be outdone by hot hatches, diesel saloons even modern people carriers with clever suspension and powerful engines.

This is looking to be a proper sports car, it's how it feels at your fingertips that matters not the stats on paper or what you can or can't keep up with. And with modern technology decent mpg, a pleasant place to be inside, hopefully some A/B road and day to day compliant suspension is all possible in one package despite the main focus on feedback and form, it sounds bloody wonderful frankly. I'm not in the position to buy one in this point in my life, but had I not gone to Uni Id do everything in my power to get my hands on one of these. Albeit without that spoiler which shouts a little too loud for a car that as said doesn't need to imo. And the wheels are indeed a bit crap. Like the rest a lot though. Want want want.

Edited by J4mmin on Saturday 3rd December 07:10

[andrewparker]

Before you accuse me of not understanding this car - I do. I just fear the torque figure is a little low for decent real world performance.

[Chrisw666]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Sounds fantastic

Problem I would have is the real world performance, your going to spend most of your life with mid sized German oil burners, modern hot hatches and "barry" cars (chipped fiests ST's and Corsa VXR's)glued to your back bumper

The local barrys are the main reason I have sold my R32 DSG, low 6's 0-60s just do not cut it any more

Not sure if serious!

However if you really wouldn't choose a car because someone else has a car that is quicker than it why not just take up walking? Surely it is about how you feel when in the car not about being able to race people on the public highway and win.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Chrisw666 said:

Not sure if serious!

However if you really wouldn't choose a car because someone else has a car that is quicker than it why not just take up walking? Surely it is about how you feel when in the car not about being able to race people on the public highway and win.

its an individual thing, it really winds me up when barry in his chipped festa ST is glued to my backside

for me the GT86 is flawed logic, if I was after the ultimate driving environment I would spend 25k on a 7, it will destroy the GT86 in performance and driver involvement,

as a road car the lack of torque and performance would bug me, as a point to point all weather road weapon I would rather have a chipped S3

but thats what I would like

give the GT86 400bhp and 4wd and I am in

[Bill]

Dave Hedgehog said:

its an individual thing, it really winds me up when barry in his chipped festa ST is glued to my backside

for me the GT86 is flawed logic, if I was after the ultimate driving environment I would spend 25k on a 7, it will destroy the GT86 in performance and driver involvement,

as a road car the lack of torque and performance would bug me, as a point to point all weather road weapon I would rather have a chipped S3

but thats what I would like

give the GT86 400bhp and 4wd and I am in

There are plenty of cars that do what you want, the GT86 is for people who'd rather have feeling than outright grip.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Bill said:

There are plenty of cars that do what you want, the GT86 is for people who'd rather have feeling than outright grip.

totally

and im sure there will be breathed upon "R/RS" models in the future

[elementad]

Dave Hedgehog said:

its an individual thing, it really winds me up when barry in his chipped festa ST is glued to my backside

for me the GT86 is flawed logic, if I was after the ultimate driving environment I would spend 25k on a 7, it will destroy the GT86 in performance and driver involvement,

as a road car the lack of torque and performance would bug me, as a point to point all weather road weapon I would rather have a chipped S3

but thats what I would like

give the GT86 400bhp and 4wd and I am in

I do understand where Daves coming from. Without getting into a 0-60 debate which we all know this car isn't about that, but the dc2 managed 0-60 in 6.2 and that had less horsepower. For this lightweight Toyota how come it's in the 7's?
Where I think Dave nailed it in my eyes is that for the customer that wants ONE car, an all rounder with good drivability then this car would be very appealing. Earlier I said it reminds me of the integra (which it still does), but somehow not quite as focused. Hands up might be wrong but that's the impression I get.
If your a customer who's got a beater and wants a performance beast as a second car (presuming you've got a beater for day to day) then I'm not sure you'd go for this with so much other option around.

Dont get me wrong, I like it, just saying that I'm not going to jump on a band wagon and slate Dave above for mentioning straight line performance

Edited by elementad on Saturday 3rd December 09:15

[Chrisw666]

Dave Hedgehog said:

its an individual thing, it really winds me up when barry in his chipped festa ST is glued to my backside

for me the GT86 is flawed logic, if I was after the ultimate driving environment I would spend 25k on a 7, it will destroy the GT86 in performance and driver involvement,

as a road car the lack of torque and performance would bug me, as a point to point all weather road weapon I would rather have a chipped S3

but thats what I would like

give the GT86 400bhp and 4wd and I am in

Point of GT86 ===> Here. What you are seeking ==================>Here.

The GT86 is about delivering the sensation of involvement in a more practical package than a Catherham or Elise, that most people who can't run 2 cars don't run as a daily (Before anyone chirps up I know a few on here do) Essentially it is a mass market drivers car in the way that the Clio Sport or Integra Type R have been, but with RWD where the only serious player is BMW who do very little outside the M-divison cars that are a truck load more money to buy.

Other cars to compare are things like the 350z and Z4 which aren't bad cars but have higher running costs than a simple Toyota coupe should. Or perhaps a Cayman which would be a much better car but comparing used to new at £25k isn't fair.

Cars like the S3 may cover ground quickly but if outright pace was important we would all drive muscle cars or drag machinery. In reality to most people who use their cars as a thing to enjoy by being out on an open road feeling the experience of driving the car at or near its limits without having to drive a dangerous speeds, while also knowing that the car wasn't being really expensive and could take you to work Monday-Friday without any hassle.

[s m]

elementad said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

its an individual thing, it really winds me up when barry in his chipped festa ST is glued to my backside

for me the GT86 is flawed logic, if I was after the ultimate driving environment I would spend 25k on a 7, it will destroy the GT86 in performance and driver involvement,

as a road car the lack of torque and performance would bug me, as a point to point all weather road weapon I would rather have a chipped S3

but thats what I would like

give the GT86 400bhp and 4wd and I am in

I do understand where Daves coming from. Without getting into a 0-60 debate which we all know this car isn't about that, but the dc2 managed 0-60 in 6.2 and that had less horsepower. For this lightweight Toyota how come it's in the 7's?
Where I think Dave nailed it in my eyes is that for the customer that wants ONE car, an all rounder with good drivability then this car would be very appealing. Earlier I said it reminds me of the integra (which it still does), but somehow not quite as focused. Hands up might be wrong but that's the impression I get.
If your a customer who's got a beater and wants a performance beast as a second car (presuming you've got a beater for day to day) then I'm not sure you'd go for this with do much other option around.

Dont get me wrong, I like it, just saying that I'm not going to jump in a band wagon and slate Dave above for mentioning straight line performance

Not that it matters particularly that the 0-62 quoted is 7 secs but I wouldn't be surprised if its closer to low 6s with the weight/power quoted - look at similar power rwd cars that weigh similar

[Chrisw666]

s m said:

Not that it matters particularly that the 0-62 quoted is 7 secs but I wouldn't be surprised if its closer to low 6s with the weight/power quoted - look at similar power rwd cars that weigh similar

They did say that the figures weren't final as the gear ratios probably aren't 100% set for the production versions yet.

[Bill]

elementad said:

I do understand where Daves coming from. Without getting into a 0-60 debate which we all know this car isn't about that, but the dc2 managed 0-60 in 6.2 and that had less horsepower. For this lightweight Toyota how come it's in the 7's?
Where I think Dave nailed it in my eyes is that for the customer that wants ONE car, an all rounder with good drivability then this car would be very appealing. Earlier I said it reminds me of the integra (which it still does), but somehow not quite as focused. Hands up might be wrong but that's the impression I get.
If your a customer who's got a beater and wants a performance beast as a second car (presuming you've got a beater for day to day) then I'm not sure you'd go for this with so much other option around.

Dont get me wrong, I like it, just saying that I'm not going to jump on a band wagon and slate Dave above for mentioning straight line performance

Edited by elementad on Saturday 3rd December 09:15

Ultimately IME all that grip and pace is dull.

[vz-r_dave]

So refreshing, great write up and was certainly needed.

People seem to forget that the AE86 was an introduction to RWD. This car is going to give so many of us in a few years cheap access to safe, reliable RWD. It really is a master piece. Thank you Toyota/Subaru you have just opened up a new market of which I believe others will follow.

[cossey]

I went into the local Toyota showroom on the way home from work yesterday and was told £26-27K but more shocking bit was that they were opening the waiting list next week and wanted £2000 deposit which seemed a bit steep but then I was told that they were only expecting 10 cars next year so will probably have sold 2012's allocation by the end of the week.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Chrisw666 said:

Point of GT86 ===> Here. What you are seeking ==================>Here.

The GT86 is about delivering the sensation of involvement in a more practical package than a Catherham or Elise, that most people who can't run 2 cars don't run as a daily (Before anyone chirps up I know a few on here do) Essentially it is a mass market drivers car in the way that the Clio Sport or Integra Type R have been, but with RWD where the only serious player is BMW who do very little outside the M-divison cars that are a truck load more money to buy.

Other cars to compare are things like the 350z and Z4 which aren't bad cars but have higher running costs than a simple Toyota coupe should. Or perhaps a Cayman which would be a much better car but comparing used to new at £25k isn't fair.

Cars like the S3 may cover ground quickly but if outright pace was important we would all drive muscle cars or drag machinery. In reality to most people who use their cars as a thing to enjoy by being out on an open road feeling the experience of driving the car at or near its limits without having to drive a dangerous speeds, while also knowing that the car wasn't being really expensive and could take you to work Monday-Friday without any hassle.

absolutely, it will hit the target perfectly for many

just not me, its too compromised as a road car and not hardcore enough as a drivers tool

[vz-r_dave]

Dave Hedgehog said:

absolutely, it will hit the target perfectly for many

just not me, its too compromised as a road car and not hardcore enough as a drivers tool

So with this your saying you need two cars or is there something else out there in that price range which provides the same experience (going on write ups)

I assume something like an Elise but it doesnt have rear seats (I know they are tiny on to 86 but still its room for little people)

[iantek]

Chrisw666 said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

its an individual thing, it really winds me up when barry in his chipped festa ST is glued to my backside

for me the GT86 is flawed logic, if I was after the ultimate driving environment I would spend 25k on a 7, it will destroy the GT86 in performance and driver involvement,

as a road car the lack of torque and performance would bug me, as a point to point all weather road weapon I would rather have a chipped S3

but thats what I would like

give the GT86 400bhp and 4wd and I am in

Point of GT86 ===> Here. What you are seeking ==================>Here.

The GT86 is about delivering the sensation of involvement in a more practical package than a Catherham or Elise, that most people who can't run 2 cars don't run as a daily (Before anyone chirps up I know a few on here do) Essentially it is a mass market drivers car in the way that the Clio Sport or Integra Type R have been, but with RWD where the only serious player is BMW who do very little outside the M-divison cars that are a truck load more money to buy.

Other cars to compare are things like the 350z and Z4 which aren't bad cars but have higher running costs than a simple Toyota coupe should. Or perhaps a Cayman which would be a much better car but comparing used to new at £25k isn't fair.

Cars like the S3 may cover ground quickly but if outright pace was important we would all drive muscle cars or drag machinery. In reality to most people who use their cars as a thing to enjoy by being out on an open road feeling the experience of driving the car at or near its limits without having to drive a dangerous speeds, while also knowing that the car wasn't being really expensive and could take you to work Monday-Friday without any hassle.

This.

[Dave Hedgehog]

vz-r_dave said:

So with this your saying you need two cars or is there something else out there in that price range which provides the same experience (going on write ups)

I assume something like an Elise but it doesnt have rear seats (I know they are tiny on to 86 but still its room for little people)

yep, ideally i would like to run 2 cars, i used to but its too much hassle for me now