RE: Lotus unveils Evora GTE 'By Swizz Beatz'
Discussion
zebedee said:
It isn't 1980. 8 years of Elise ownership, only fault was a failed clutch cylinder (not a Lotus part - actually made by AP Racing I think). Only time it hasn't started is when I haven't driven it for a while, then it starts on the button on a jump start and works fine since.
1000 miles in an Evora, no issues at all.
Evora is a lot more exciting to look at than any Cayman or 911 too but I confess to not having driven a Porsche so have to go along with the likes of Evo when they tell me that what I experienced is as good as it gets for the pricepoint.
I'm sure the Evora is a very good car and a very viable alternative in it's current form for certain petrolheads or anyone who values handling above all else, however as an overall proposition to the majortiy of the great unwashed it's not significantly better than a Cayman. 95% of people wouldn't even appreciate the extra handling excellence of the Evora because they don't know how to drive especially since the Cayman isn't exactly a bad steer either. That means they will be comparing them on other things like build quality (perceived or otherwise), overall ownership proposition, reliability and even the badge and comparing the Evora to the Cayman on those terms, for 99% of people the Evora looses. Sorry but that's the plain truth and sales figures are the proof. 1000 miles in an Evora, no issues at all.
Evora is a lot more exciting to look at than any Cayman or 911 too but I confess to not having driven a Porsche so have to go along with the likes of Evo when they tell me that what I experienced is as good as it gets for the pricepoint.
Like it or not, the Evora starts off at a huge disadvantage just due to the pure weight of brand kudos that a Porsche carries, it has to be much more than good to tempt real buyers out of their comfort zones. Unfortunate but also true. Unfortunately it's just not enough that it's 10% better or whatever in the handling stakes and the same or worse in other areas than it's nearest rivals. It either has to be better by some margin on all fronts or it needs to be a hell of a lot cheaper.
justin220 said:
Do people actually do this? I would feel sorry for someone who put their car key on a pub table.
Also, if the key alone is enough to put you off buying the car, I'd suggest you weren't that serious about buying one in the first place. Minor things like that are WAY down on my list of priorities. The fact the Evora was not a 911 was a plus point for me. Its nice having something different and not following the crowd.
Actually I don't throw my car keys around in the pub but I've seen people doing exactly this.Also, if the key alone is enough to put you off buying the car, I'd suggest you weren't that serious about buying one in the first place. Minor things like that are WAY down on my list of priorities. The fact the Evora was not a 911 was a plus point for me. Its nice having something different and not following the crowd.
And yes, I've bought an Evora and she's still with me, but I don't drive it. And again yes, mostly due to the sh*tty key, as I keep the keys to my vehicle always in my pocket and can't stand the monstrous key Lotus chose for the Evora. I couldn't care less that an Evora is a rare sight. I see the car from the interior and whatever you drive, you will know it inside out.
bobberz said:
Regardless of the association (I still don't know who the f
k "Swizz Beatz" is...
Google gives you the info in.. 0.20 seconds k "Swizz Beatz" is... 
Swizz is a shrewd choice in terms of associated star power. He produces and knows the top artists and they all go to the launches/parties. Lotus basically get the popular music world and the massive press that follows for a relatively low fee. Giving Swizz a title I think is their way of making him more than just a name, whether he is or not. Alternatively they could slip their entire marketing, R&D and part of their F1 budget into the back pocket of a talentless wonder like Jennifer Lopez to front their car for 5 minutes. Swizz is a relative bargain in comparison I think.
They are clearly trying to get the attention of the younger/trendier market through Swizz and co. They've gotten a hell of a lot of coverage so far, 19 pages on here which I think would have been perhaps 6 if they'd just released pics and specs of the car. Good or bad, the brand is getting attention where it otherwise wouldn't. Lotus in the US need to get people IN to tests the cars. If the cars are good, they will get sales, but they need to get people through the door and what they've done so far will go some way to doing that. Lots of families in the U.S who can comfortably put a red ribbon on a Lotus and give it to their kids for graduation/college. The kids however need to know about the brand somewhat to have a desire to own one.
I remember driving my S2 Elise in Miami, 1 in 20 had any idea what it was. I had many, many more conversations about the Lotus when out and about than the Murci or 430. Everyone in South Florida knows what a Lamborghini/Ferrari/Porsche is, few knew anything about Lotus. Certainly the dealer there was selling the majority of them as 3rd+ cars with the average buyer roughly matching that in the UK (middle-aged car enthusiast who knows the brand). As such it's no wonder the US Lotus forum users don't know who Swizz is or what he does, they simply are not in the demographic much like most of the users of this thread judging the replies. Perhaps the people at Lotus trust that a bit of marketing won't put their loyal customers off because they are buying the cars for what they do, not who happens to be marketing it in another land. I wouldn't think twice about buying a Lotus just because Swizz Beats was doing the US PR, I am buying the car for what is it and how it drives. I would also buy a Fiat 500 without worrying about Jennifer Lopez' fleeting association with it.
That's just me though.
It matters not a jot what any individual thinks about the talents or otherwise of a 'Brand Promoter'. Clearly you haven't got much time for JL (and I may well agree), but that's irrelevant; for sure, VFM temporarily put aside, she'd create a lot lot more global press coverage. They either create potential interest or they do not; show me the "massive press" that is ensuing from ( as I see it, 'smoke & mirrors') SB; 19 pages on here means absolutely nothing; it's entirely feasible (for all I know we may already have done) we could replicate this discussing the merits or otherwise of Porker's centrelocks! Would that effect 911 sales?; No, likely not one single unit.
I still do not see SB as in any way a shrewd choice; at best it's a bargain basement niche choice; that's not the way to bring a new price point product to market. Hopefully a damp squib that only us lot on here noticed briefly fizzing before it fizzled out. 'If a firework fails to ignite, do not attempt to relight it, using protective gloves, carefully discard'; in my opinion, that's what Lotus should do with SB - afterall, his own site has yet to report this momentous event. All too busy partying somewhere? And Lotus wants/aspires to compete with the likes of Porsche? Then fire the idiot(s) who chose him.
Especially when you've just signed up one of the pretty well universally accepted coolest guys on the planet in Kimi Raikkonen - do I like him, will he win? Irrelevant; he's ultra-cool and any previous sign of otherwise can be easily removed by a bit of tuition. Do I mean keeping it to himself that he's popping off for a dump? Probably not; that got massive publcity and had he described (been taught to describe) it slightly more delicately, none would have been negative.
Like I said, please show me the "massive press".
I still do not see SB as in any way a shrewd choice; at best it's a bargain basement niche choice; that's not the way to bring a new price point product to market. Hopefully a damp squib that only us lot on here noticed briefly fizzing before it fizzled out. 'If a firework fails to ignite, do not attempt to relight it, using protective gloves, carefully discard'; in my opinion, that's what Lotus should do with SB - afterall, his own site has yet to report this momentous event. All too busy partying somewhere? And Lotus wants/aspires to compete with the likes of Porsche? Then fire the idiot(s) who chose him.
Especially when you've just signed up one of the pretty well universally accepted coolest guys on the planet in Kimi Raikkonen - do I like him, will he win? Irrelevant; he's ultra-cool and any previous sign of otherwise can be easily removed by a bit of tuition. Do I mean keeping it to himself that he's popping off for a dump? Probably not; that got massive publcity and had he described (been taught to describe) it slightly more delicately, none would have been negative.
Like I said, please show me the "massive press".
Hard sales are the only way to judge the effectiveness or otherwise of what has been going on at Lotus.
We need to see a graph of world sales of Lotus cars by units last 10 years to date from an independent source to get a true picture.
On the face of it they seem to be borrowing vast sums and some decisions seem illogical.(Proton don't have money for any of this their parent the Malaysian government relies heavily on Petronas the state oil company for funds......so why would they want to make jobs in Norfolk ! )
I imagine almost everyone who reads this forum wants to see this company still making exciting sports cars selling in healthy profitable numbers in 25 years from now. There is understandable concern given announcements in the last couple of years.
We need to see a graph of world sales of Lotus cars by units last 10 years to date from an independent source to get a true picture.
On the face of it they seem to be borrowing vast sums and some decisions seem illogical.(Proton don't have money for any of this their parent the Malaysian government relies heavily on Petronas the state oil company for funds......so why would they want to make jobs in Norfolk ! )
I imagine almost everyone who reads this forum wants to see this company still making exciting sports cars selling in healthy profitable numbers in 25 years from now. There is understandable concern given announcements in the last couple of years.
RTH said:
I imagine almost everyone who reads this forum wants to see this company still making exciting sports cars selling in healthy profitable numbers in 25 years from now. There is understandable concern given announcements in the last couple of years.
Hear HearAnd if only for record purposes, here's one previous Owner who will only be buying his particular new Lotus if it's designed and built in Norfolk; by that I mean not in Korea or China or India etc.
That's well non PC, but that's the way it is and will be - I've earned it, paid tax on it and I'll spend it how I want, however daft and illogical those criteria might seem to others. If all else fails, as it probably will, write it off as a weird mark of respect to the Guv'nor who departed in 82. IMHO, when it comes to aiming to design out weight and effect aero, nearly 30 years on, he still stands head and shoulders above anyone else anywhere.
splitpin said:
It matters not a jot what any individual thinks about the talents or otherwise of a 'Brand Promoter'. Clearly you haven't got much time for JL (and I may well agree), but that's irrelevant; for sure, VFM temporarily put aside, she'd create a lot lot more global press coverage. They either create potential interest or they do not; show me the "massive press" that is ensuing from ( as I see it, 'smoke & mirrors') SB;
I really don't think this is what you think it is. It seems to me that SB isn't a bought in 'face on a poster' to advertise the Evora. These days, the world is more than used to that - launch Evoras were delivered to a variety of 'celebs' and had all the impact of the first elimination of X-Factor.The impression I get is that he's meant to be what the marketing guys call a thought leader. He works with Lotus to develop the right sort of impression amongst his peers. Instead of a five minute burst of fame, Lotus have a member of the cool crowd involved in an ongoing project. When he's mixing with the music elite, they're going to hear he's working with Lotus.
It seems to me that people here are completely missing that this is a long game for Lotus. Changing from niche sales for committed enthusiasts to larger, profitable markets isn't about launching a Porsche killer at half the price (even if that was possible, who wants a bargain basement knock off?) or having a famous star advertise their car. That won't change people coming up with nonsense about reliability or complaining that the engine isn't bespoke. Creating a halo around a car can't be done with a quick bit of advertising.
If I'm right, SB's job here is to create a Lotus that his crowd would name check, or want to buy. If he can get people like Beyonce or Jay-Z 'into' Lotus, then that's worth infinitely more than a brief campaign with one of them posing next to a car they would never buy. The aim is to have people in five years' time saying "Lotus are cool" and kids sticking posters up on their walls, not to throw money at a brief advertising campaign that will soon be forgotten.
I hope it works - I doubt it will - but I do hope it works (Lotus really matters), but time is not on Lotus's side.
I reckon the only way you'd get B's ample B into the seat of her Lotus is to present her one FOC. She'd be in it just the once .......... possibly potentially forever if what just about gets in doesn't/can't quite come out
Anyone interested in a delivery mileage Evora Speedster if it becomes available?
I reckon the only way you'd get B's ample B into the seat of her Lotus is to present her one FOC. She'd be in it just the once .......... possibly potentially forever if what just about gets in doesn't/can't quite come out
Anyone interested in a delivery mileage Evora Speedster if it becomes available?
splitpin said:
Like I said, please show me the "massive press".
Any news/gossip magazine or internet news site can highlight the massive press that follows the music stars. I think Lotus are wise to tap into that through Swizz & co. He and Danny were on Bloomberg TV and at the Tokyo Motorshow the other day from what I've seen. I am sure that NONE of the other music/film stars would give time to do that because to them it would just be a commercial gig to them. Swizz at least seams to be an active part of whatever Lotus marketing are up to in the U.S.Clearly 19 pages of a thread on PH isn't going to change sales.. the point is this has gotten people talking about the brand/product where they otherwise wouldn't have been. Communication is key to marketing and Swizz & co have very large followings both on and offline. Swizz is clearly intent on being more than just a big producer and sometime performer. So far he has his fingers in production, performing, clothing, sport, property and art. He is going down the Kanye West and Pharrell Williams path, trying to be a lifestyle and fashion leader/trend setter where people buy into whatever you do and are associated with, not just your music. Lotus are obviously aware of this and seem happy enough to partner with him for this venture.
They are never going to get a stampede of buyers at their door overnight from a few parties, but if they keep pushing the brand at the new target audience they have a better chance of increasing orders over time. Whether they succeed is another thing but as Tuna said, I think they are playing a long game rather than blowing the budget on 5 minutes of attention using someone who isn't shown to be an active part of the brand beyond a cheque.
I love Lotus and I hope all these moves pay off so they can keep producing the cars we love. Whoever is in charge of their internet press releases though, needs to be fired. Cringeworthy at best.
Edited by Justices on Sunday 11th December 01:58
Harmless but stupid.
Cadillac basically avoided bankruptcy 10 yrs ago with a rebadged GMC called the Escalade, when rappers decided they loved it and put it in their videos. The first place i ever saw a Chrysler 300C was one of 50 Cent's videos. And I'm sure that Rolls Royce got a bit of a boost when Lil Wayne had one on the cover of Tha Carter II.
Howver, putting a car in a video and making a hit-or-miss producer your brand spokesman of sorts are two different things entirely.
From what I know and see in America, the people who buy Lotuses there are those who are older and could have bought something else but didn't, because they love Chapman's philosophy. These guys probably had an old Elan in the 60s. The majority (from what I observe) are younger guys in their late 20s and 30s who want something 'flashy' but cannot afford a GT3 RS. Some are rabid trackdayers but the majority are not. I can't see either of these 2 groups giving 2 5hits about Mr. Beatz.
Edited by BlackPrince on Sunday 11th December 14:18
BlackPrince said:
From what I know and see in America, the people who buy Lotuses there are those who are older and could have bought something else but didn't, because they love Chapman's philosophy. These guys probably had an old Elan in the 60s. The majority (from what I observe) are younger guys in their late 20s and 30s who want something 'flashy' but cannot afford a GT3 RS. Some are rabid trackdayers but the majority are not. I can't see either of these 2 groups giving 2 5hits about Mr. Beatz.
The trouble is, those two groups don't give 2 5hits about buying Lotus' either judging by sales. The guys who had an Elan in the 60's are at least 70 years old now. The young guys in their 20s want something that can out drag their friend's cars and Lotus have never been about outright power. Lotus have to get outside their (increasingly niche) core demographic and start finding a new crowd to sell to. Everyone here is very nostalgic about what Lotus 'used to represent', but nostalgia doesn't sell cars. Nor does chasing past glories.justin220 said:
Do people actually do this? I would feel sorry for someone who put their car key on a pub table.
Also, if the key alone is enough to put you off buying the car, I'd suggest you weren't that serious about buying one in the first place. Minor things like that are WAY down on my list of priorities. The fact the Evora was not a 911 was a plus point for me. Its nice having something different and not following the crowd.
As for ugly? I don't think anyone has ever said that to me. In fact, everyone has been very positive about its looks.. Maybe its the colour!
LOVE the colour! Because I'm shallow the only Lotus i'd be would be in Chrome Orange (or at a pinch that highlighter yellow). There's one over here for a decent price, but am not so sure about it compared w/ the Exige. Have you driven the Exige and if so, how does it compare to your Evora? Also, if the key alone is enough to put you off buying the car, I'd suggest you weren't that serious about buying one in the first place. Minor things like that are WAY down on my list of priorities. The fact the Evora was not a 911 was a plus point for me. Its nice having something different and not following the crowd.
As for ugly? I don't think anyone has ever said that to me. In fact, everyone has been very positive about its looks.. Maybe its the colour!
Tuna said:
The young guys in their 20s want something that can out drag their friend's cars and Lotus have never been about outright power. Lotus have to get outside their (increasingly niche) core demographic and start finding a new crowd to sell to.
Power to weight ratio. The Exige has the mean looks and perhaps power to weight ratio that attracts young buyers here yet it's largely unheard of I think. Evora is more effeminate. You are right about people being more into drag race type stats and not handling or the experience of driving which I think Lotus delivers on uniquely so. To existing Lotus fans the Swiss Beatz thing is awkward to say the least but perhaps introduces the brand to a younger crowd that admires Swiss. I guess to a certain extent Senna and Chapman references get lost on a broader younger crowd. Get the 'kids' on board somehow then get them to respect the heritage. (Perhaps they need a 'hipster' figure to market Lotus - synchronizing with Chapmans clothing style and cars fuel economy 
)Still as a potential customer I'm a bit lost. The V6 Exige will be 'track only' in the US - not street legal. Is the Evora GTE going to be street legal? What exactly were they announcing to the American market at this Swiss Beatz get together
The GTE exists and it may or may not come to your country? We are taking orders? We would like your input?Edited by PiB on Sunday 11th December 20:06
Edited by PiB on Sunday 11th December 20:09
This Evora is going to be in the next Alicia Keys video. Like it or not that's whole lot of people that are going to be looking at that car and asking what it is.
Even if they can't buy that particular model it piques the interest of LOTS of potential buyers. Traditional Lotus buyers might not like the association with urban/R&B/Rap music and the footballers that inevitably follow that crowd, but as a business that's intending to make money in the long run it makes sense to me. It certainly hasn't done Bentley or Aston any harm.
From what I can gather, sales of the Elise was helping to prop up Lotus, rather than acting as its saviour as some would have you believe. It's no secret that Lotus cars wasn't making any money, so I can't see why the company would be especially bothered about losing their core of enthusiasts.
Even if they can't buy that particular model it piques the interest of LOTS of potential buyers. Traditional Lotus buyers might not like the association with urban/R&B/Rap music and the footballers that inevitably follow that crowd, but as a business that's intending to make money in the long run it makes sense to me. It certainly hasn't done Bentley or Aston any harm.
From what I can gather, sales of the Elise was helping to prop up Lotus, rather than acting as its saviour as some would have you believe. It's no secret that Lotus cars wasn't making any money, so I can't see why the company would be especially bothered about losing their core of enthusiasts.
VeeTEC said:
This Evora is going to be in the next Alicia Keys video. Like it or not that's whole lot of people that are going to be looking at that car and asking what it is.
Even if they can't buy that particular model it piques the interest of LOTS of potential buyers. Traditional Lotus buyers might not like the association with urban/R&B/Rap music and the footballers that inevitably follow that crowd, but as a business that's intending to make money in the long run it makes sense to me. It certainly hasn't done Bentley or Aston any harm.
From what I can gather, sales of the Elise was helping to prop up Lotus, rather than acting as its saviour as some would have you believe. It's no secret that Lotus cars wasn't making any money, so I can't see why the company would be especially bothered about losing their core of enthusiasts.
Good business indeed.Even if they can't buy that particular model it piques the interest of LOTS of potential buyers. Traditional Lotus buyers might not like the association with urban/R&B/Rap music and the footballers that inevitably follow that crowd, but as a business that's intending to make money in the long run it makes sense to me. It certainly hasn't done Bentley or Aston any harm.
From what I can gather, sales of the Elise was helping to prop up Lotus, rather than acting as its saviour as some would have you believe. It's no secret that Lotus cars wasn't making any money, so I can't see why the company would be especially bothered about losing their core of enthusiasts.
Until those clients drive them and ask about the noisy tyres, the stiff ride, the lack of luxury X Y or Z...
It's certainly the start of the end of the Lotus as we know them I think.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Good business indeed.
Until those clients drive them and ask about the noisy tyres, the stiff ride, the lack of luxury X Y or Z...
It's certainly the start of the end of the Lotus as we know them I think.
Dave
Ah. So you're the lucky one that got to test drive all the new models already Until those clients drive them and ask about the noisy tyres, the stiff ride, the lack of luxury X Y or Z...
It's certainly the start of the end of the Lotus as we know them I think.
Dave
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff