Lotus To Be Offloaded by Proton?

[Rawwr]

Hah, you sound like a proper mental.

[98elise]

Dave Hedgehog said:

not rubbish at all my opinion of them, cant stand the elise, its a pretend sports car

you can get a faster, better handling caterfield thats also less ugly, and if you want a sports car to live with every day then go porker


what they needed to do was make a grown up exige about 10 years ago to raise the brand image, rather than just trying to see how different body shapes they can stick on the same bath tub, the vx220 was a mistake as well, probably too late now

noble are making the cars lotus should of been making

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Tuesday 27th December 22:04

The elise is exactly what a proper sports car should be, and the "bathtub" is a great design, still getting praise for handling and stiffness well over a decade since it was first produced.

Having a common chassis on multiple cars is something all manufacturers do, and lotus have taken that a step further with the VVA modular chassis which can be re-configured for very little cost.

[Special K]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Baz Tench said:

Dave Hedgehog, presuming you're not trolling - have you ever driven an Elise?

Outright speed isn't what they are about (although I was pleasantly surprised in that department by the one I drove recently).

I don't think you understand the concept of a sports car.

And yeah, none of us can move for Nobles....

ETA; I did a driver experience day a few months ago involving a 997 and an Elise. The Elise was the car I was looking forward to driving the most as I own a Boxster and have driven a few 911s before. It didn't disappoint! Bloody great fun!

I will concede its not my cup of tea, but that they could be for others, but I am not into "driving purity" for purity's sake. The elise is flawed logic for me and the main reason why lotus has struggled, its desperately slow as a road car by my standards, its not hardcore enough for a track toy and not refined enough for a road sports car, FOR ME. For the 30k cost of an elise I could get a much much faster and more focused driving experienced caterfield for track use, and 30k on a porker sports car would give a much easier to live with, but again FOR ME. But then I am not the only one that thinks like this, hence why lotus cars has and is struggling.

But I also find the BTCC very boring because the cars are so slow ..

I think the noble reference is correct, lotus needed a heavy hitting supercar, something that lived up to there superb history to carry the flag and raise the brands image, not to rely on the sale of the same tub re-skinned

To me this is everything a lotus should be

http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Just need to make one big enough for my fat ass

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 28th December 09:28

So because the Elise isn't your cup of tea you slate it and Lotus ?

[Dave Hedgehog]

Special K said:

So because the Elise isn't your cup of tea you slate it and Lotus ?

not so much slate it or lotus but rather my perspective as to why such a historic brand such as lotus has been and is still struggling, I could be barking up the wrong tree of course, but something is a miss

[Mr2Mike]

Dave Hedgehog said:

The elise is flawed logic for me and the main reason why lotus has struggled, its desperately slow as a road car by my standards

You either have very high standards or you prefer driving at 3 figure speeds on the road. At sane road speeds it's not remotely slow, even the basic S1 with the 118bhp K series was quick by any sensible standards (0-60 in under 6 seconds, standing quarter in 14.4s), and the performance variants of the S2 are up with some properly expensive performance cars. You also get fantastic handling and excellent economy, I don't know of many other sports cars that can match or beat it in all these areas.

The Elise is what saved Lotus, they were just about dead in the water prior to making this car.

[Fire99]

What Lotus needs to do is to start shifting some units, to get some return on its investment.
There's been a lot of hype and gloss but so far, I'm waiting to see some fruit from their labour.
In the meantime, I can understand why investors and economists etc would get twitchy..

[JR]

Fire99 said:

What Lotus needs to do is to start shifting some units, to get some return on its investment.

Quite. I am stunned in the last 20 years Ferrari has gone from selling less than 3K cars per anum to over 7K. Lotus ought to be able to increase sales similarly and they need an impressive top end car which they haven't had for over 30 years.

[davepoth]

JR said:

Quite. I am stunned in the last 20 years Ferrari has gone from selling less than 3K cars per anum to over 7K. Lotus ought to be able to increase sales similarly and they need an impressive top end car which they haven't had for over 30 years.

The figures we need to see for Ferrari isn't the car sales, but merchandise licensing revenue. If you want a flash car and live in a desert, the chances are you want a Ferrari because they've leveraged their brand so effectively.

[frosted]

I said this before and I will say it again . Lotus have to start making a cheap Elise again , something to compete with the mx5 @ 15-20k brand new . Cheaper the better, 60k for a lotus will never happen . They need a big boy slayer like r35

[kambites]

frosted said:

I said this before and I will say it again . Lotus have to start making a cheap Elise again , something to compete with the mx5 @ 15-20k brand new . Cheaper the better

Lotus never made an Elise (or any other car) to compete with the mx5, etc. It would be a completely new market for them to move into.

[Herbs]

Dave Hedgehog said:

I will concede its not my cup of tea, but that they could be for others, but I am not into "driving purity" for purity's sake. The elise is flawed logic for me and the main reason why lotus has struggled, its desperately slow as a road car by my standards, its not hardcore enough for a track toy and not refined enough for a road sports car, FOR ME. For the 30k cost of an elise I could get a much much faster and more focused driving experienced caterfield for track use, and 30k on a porker sports car would give a much easier to live with, but again FOR ME. But then I am not the only one that thinks like this, hence why lotus cars has and is struggling.

But I also find the BTCC very boring because the cars are so slow ..

I think the noble reference is correct, lotus needed a heavy hitting supercar, something that lived up to there superb history to carry the flag and raise the brands image, not to rely on the sale of the same tub re-skinned

To me this is everything a lotus should be

http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Just need to make one big enough for my fat ass

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 28th December 09:28

As a current owner of a proper sports car in your eyes - a 911 C4S and having owned a few Elises I can categorically say that for a road car on B roads to drive "quick" - give me the Elise any day of the week.

its not about top speed its about corners - something that unless you have driven one you will simply not understand. Yes they are powered by a 1.8 but they will return 35 MPG and still pull in any gear at any revs. The feeling of taking a corner at 20-30mph faster than you would consider doing in a normal car is mind boggling and takes a long time driving the car before you can actually drive it.

From your posts i would guess that your "frame" is too large for the Elise hence your unquantified hatred towards one of the best performing road cars on the market.

Cars are built for different sectors and the Elise was designed for twisty B road blasts not trundling down a dual carriageway or doing the shopping run. it's a shame you are too narrow minded to see this as you will be missing out on a wide range of great cars not just Lotus's

[Dave Hedgehog]

Herbs said:

As a current owner of a proper sports car in your eyes - a 911 C4S and having owned a few Elises I can categorically say that for a road car on B roads to drive "quick" - give me the Elise any day of the week.

its not about top speed its about corners - something that unless you have driven one you will simply not understand. Yes they are powered by a 1.8 but they will return 35 MPG and still pull in any gear at any revs. The feeling of taking a corner at 20-30mph than you would consider doing in a normal car is mind boggling and takes a long time driving the car before you can actually drive it.

From your posts i would guess that your "frame" is too large for the Elise hence your unquantified hatred towards one of the best performing road cars on the market.

Cars are built for different sectors and the Elise was designed for twisty B road blasts not trundling down a dual carriageway or doing the shopping run. it's a shame you are too narrow minded to see this as you will be missing out on a wide range of great cars not just Lotus's

so you consider an ass engined beetle a proper sports car?













sorry I couldn't resit, sorry , I love 911's (and the lotus elan is in my top 10 cars of all times for the record)


I do appreciate cars are built for different segments of the market, and that lotus are not going for the wide load market, but in terms of marketing I and some others feel that it has been detrimental to lotus that they focused so much on the mass market model at the exclusion of a flag ship model, which has had an impact on there branding.

I have driven the original elise, not the latest one, bored me to death, sounded and went like a hair dryer, sure it handles well but so did the MR2 roadster, I want some bang with my cornering.

And yes you would need to grease me up and poke me with big sticks to get me in one now ...

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 28th December 11:04

[Herbs]

granted the top speed is only 125 or so but it gets there pretty quickly. the original does sound like a sewing machine but as soon as you get the sports exhaust on there then you can go as loud as you like.

I would suggest getting yourself a pax ride in one to see what they can do in the right hands

[frosted]

kambites said:

Lotus never made an Elise (or any other car) to compete with the mx5, etc. It would be a completely new market for them to move into.

They have the tech , they have the name , they have the factories and a very good following . They can make a no frills Elise to keep bringing money in

[kambites]

frosted said:

kambites said:

Lotus never made an Elise (or any other car) to compete with the mx5, etc. It would be a completely new market for them to move into.

They have the tech , they have the name , they have the factories and a very good following . They can make a no frills Elise to keep bringing money in

The Elise isn't and never could be an MX5 competitor. I agree that a cut-down Elise would be a good thing to add to their line-up, but it's always going to be a much more expensive car than the MX5 - I can't see it being viable to produce an Elise for less than 25k these days.

[CDP]

Dave Hedgehog said:

I will concede its not my cup of tea, but that they could be for others, but I am not into "driving purity" for purity's sake. The elise is flawed logic for me and the main reason why lotus has struggled, its desperately slow as a road car by my standards, its not hardcore enough for a track toy and not refined enough for a road sports car, FOR ME. For the 30k cost of an elise I could get a much much faster and more focused driving experienced caterfield for track use, and 30k on a porker sports car would give a much easier to live with, but again FOR ME. But then I am not the only one that thinks like this, hence why lotus cars has and is struggling.

But I also find the BTCC very boring because the cars are so slow ..

I think the noble reference is correct, lotus needed a heavy hitting supercar, something that lived up to there superb history to carry the flag and raise the brands image, not to rely on the sale of the same tub re-skinned

To me this is everything a lotus should be

http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Just need to make one big enough for my fat ass

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 28th December 09:28

Just take up rocket luge and forget about cars as anything other than something to carry your peroxide in...

[Ozzie Osmond]

Fire99 said:

What Lotus needs to do is to start shifting some units, to get some return on its investment.
There's been a lot of hype and gloss but so far, I'm waiting to see some fruit from their labour.
In the meantime, I can understand why investors and economists etc would get twitchy..

Excellent 3 line summary.

IMO the biggest issue they face right now is that because of the low sales volumes they can't build the cars cheap enough to compete properly in the marketplace. And because they can't compete properly they can't buld up the sales volumes. Add in the packaging/styling problems of Evora and regrettably they're in a fix. The new V6 Exige (which I think is essentially a stripped-down Evora) should hit a better price point and they must be hoping for more customers.

Every owner of Lotus has aspired to take the company up-market. It has never yet worked. In terms of sales volumes (so let's include the old Lotus 7 still built by Caterham) all of their "rated" cars have been light, fast and good value.

[limpsfield]

I love this sentence from http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/lotus/proton-ge...

"Proton, the Malaysian manufacturer of sedans and taxis"...

I've had an Elise for over 3 years and think Dave hedgehog is talking rubbish.

However,the market for spartan sportscars is a small one and it's just not making money for them. It's a shame but most people with 20-30 grand to spend seem to want comfort - those who have more cash to spend and want something sporting also maybe see Lotus as too hardcore, too basic and go to the usual suspects like Porsche etc.

I think I would struggle having an Elise as my only car.

Like all the other car companies over the last 30 years who have got into major financial difficulty: Maserati; Porsche; Aston Martin; Bristol etc they need to come up with something new that will make them a profit - I sincerely hope these new models are the answer but also sadly have my doubts.

I think the Evora could have been a step on the way but as has been debated time and again here, the pricing was maybe a little off.

[otolith]

frosted said:

They have the tech , they have the name , they have the factories and a very good following . They can make a no frills Elise to keep bringing money in

What would you remove from it in order to make it more cheaply?

[kambites]

otolith said:

frosted said:

They have the tech , they have the name , they have the factories and a very good following . They can make a no frills Elise to keep bringing money in

What would you remove from it in order to make it more cheaply?

Airbags, carpets, sound deadening, brake servo, electric windows, air conditioning, fit a cheaper engine,... they could certainly cut it down a bit but not to 20k.