Lotus To Be Offloaded by Proton?
Discussion
kambites said:
otolith said:
frosted said:
They have the tech , they have the name , they have the factories and a very good following . They can make a no frills Elise to keep bringing money in
What would you remove from it in order to make it more cheaply? Not sure what the situation with airbags is - I think it would be hard to sell a mainstream road car without them, anything being put up against the MX-5 would be hard pressed to ditch them. They can't be that expensive, though, a fairly cheap upgrade in spec on a city car usually throws in a couple more of them.
otolith said:
There was a pretty big gulf in performance - CAR magazine put the M100 up against the Integrale and 911 C4 as a candidate for "quickest point-to-point road car" - can't imagine an MX-5 being in that company, it's not what it's about.
You raise a fair point. But looking back retrospectively, when thinking of two seater cabriolet/open-roofed vehicles, those are more obvious comparisons. Though I imagine in the competition you mention, the price seemed justifiable.Ozzie Osmond said:
Since you can buy a Toyota from about £12,000 with more airbags, electric windows, safety equipment and accessories than you can count there isn't much excuse for Lotus' inability to stick something similar in an Elise chassis for less than £28,000.
What's that got to do with anything? How much would those Toyotas cost if they didn't have that stuff and if Toyota only made a few thousand a year of them? 
kambites said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Since you can buy a Toyota from about £12,000 with more airbags, electric windows, safety equipment and accessories than you can count there isn't much excuse for Lotus' inability to stick something similar in an Elise chassis for less than £28,000.
What's that got to do with anything? How much would those Toyotas cost if they didn't have that stuff and if Toyota only made a few thousand a year of them? kambites said:
What's that got to do with anything? How much would those Toyotas cost if they didn't have that stuff and if Toyota only made a few thousand a year of them? 2. The question is how Lotus think they can charge so much for building an aluminium tub and assembling the car.
There's an old saying in the industry, "It costs the same to screw the tail lights onto a Mini as onto a Rolls Royce". Whether they build 1,000 cars a year or 3,000 cars a year that cost won't change. Above all they need to come up with a car and at a price which people actually want to buy.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Above all they need to come up with a car and at a price which people actually want to buy.
The problem is the market seems to be proving that that's nigh on impossible with a heavily driver focussed car. Maybe Lotus should go and build a Fiesta competitor, but I don't want them to.
What was this thread about when it started? The current elise is moot here in the states,a simpler one is an "Lotus 7" also moot here.What was the outcome of the "EURO" thing about building a bigger dirtier engine?If that is still up in the air, then Proton will sell on the day before the word is outif they fail. The new car I want is basically a clean street legal lotus 1968 F-1 car with a 1.5 litre v-8 and a canopy. instrumentation would simply be your ipad and it would rev to 15000 rpm. I bet Wolf Zimmerman could make it up! It must look Exactly like the origional..come on technology-and sound like tearing silk! I bet the new elise will be a ripper! Happy New Yaer!!!!
If you want what everybody else wants, you can benefit from economies of scale. If you want something special, that not many people want, you have to pay for it. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Lotus's prices seem perfectly reasonable to me. I find it far harder to understand how people see value for money in, for example, a 40k Audi which is so closely mechanically related to a 16k VW.
kambites said:
Well air bags are extremely expensive (and heavy) and I believe they're standard? Possibly necessary though, for type approval?
Airbags aren't very heavy. I doubt the pair add much more than 5 or 6 kilograms to the car.I doubt they cost much these days either; unless you need to replace one that is...
CDP said:
Airbags aren't very heavy. I doubt the pair add much more than 5 or 6 kilograms to the car.
I doubt they cost much these days either; unless you need to replace one that is...
Hmm, the one I recently took out of our Punto was a good 5 or 6kg on its own. I doubt they cost much these days either; unless you need to replace one that is...
And yes, I don't know the trade cost. I just know they cost a bloody fortune if you want to buy them.
kambites said:
Hmm, the one I recently took out of our Punto was a good 5 or 6kg on its own.
And yes, I don't know the trade cost. I just know they cost a bloody fortune if you want to buy them.
Then add the cost of all of the sensors (just one from my passat is £115+VAT at retail and it has several of the flippin' things), plus the ECU that controls them, plus the design work and build time to include them. I expect they add a couple of bob to the final price of a low volume car like the Elise.And yes, I don't know the trade cost. I just know they cost a bloody fortune if you want to buy them.
And to be honest, I'd rather a car without them. Hell, in a world where you can still choose to ride a motorbike, I see no reason why it isn't a valid choice to own a modern car without any secondary safety systems or driver aids.
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