Lotus To Be Offloaded by Proton?
Discussion
RTH said:
Those prices are unrealistic for 99.5 % of car buyers.
This idea that people should just shut up , put up with and pay up any price asked is fantasy land, business never has worked that way.
Nowadays hand built means they cannot afford the machines to build to greater accuracy and the result is inferior.
From here sales will be much harder to come ,business failure is now all around us.
Sports car makers if they are running a commercial enterprise need to re-evaluate what the minimum core requirements of their car are , and find far cheaper ways of sourcing them. It probably means making smaller more basic cars to move back in to the range of sufficient customer affordability.
In 1970 lotus were selling 5000 cars a year they were practical vehicles people could get in and out of at prices where sufficient demand existed.
The trouble started in 1974 when the scrapped the entire model range at a stroke went for a 3 car range of much bigger heavier cars and 4 seaters at 3 times the price of what went before, it turned a profitable company in to a regular loss maker struggling from one new owner to the next. They jettisoned their unique selling factor and have remained unfocused since.
The reasons for the new 1974 Lotus model range were somewhat more complex than you've suggested. VAT replaced Purchase Tax, which meant there was no longer a price advantage to be had in selling cars as 'kit cars' (in reality you'd just have to add a few unimportant bits yourself with a spanner), thus buying an 'incomplete' product and avoiding Purchase Tax.This idea that people should just shut up , put up with and pay up any price asked is fantasy land, business never has worked that way.
Nowadays hand built means they cannot afford the machines to build to greater accuracy and the result is inferior.
From here sales will be much harder to come ,business failure is now all around us.
Sports car makers if they are running a commercial enterprise need to re-evaluate what the minimum core requirements of their car are , and find far cheaper ways of sourcing them. It probably means making smaller more basic cars to move back in to the range of sufficient customer affordability.
In 1970 lotus were selling 5000 cars a year they were practical vehicles people could get in and out of at prices where sufficient demand existed.
The trouble started in 1974 when the scrapped the entire model range at a stroke went for a 3 car range of much bigger heavier cars and 4 seaters at 3 times the price of what went before, it turned a profitable company in to a regular loss maker struggling from one new owner to the next. They jettisoned their unique selling factor and have remained unfocused since.
With that in mind, the market for sports cars diversified wildly. Kit car buyers wanted their cars cheap, cheerful and simple to build, so there was a boom in VW Beetle and Mini-based cars based around simple glassfibre shells.
However, the class of cars occupied by Lotus and rivals like Gilbern and Marcos - the great-sports-car-but-finish-it-yourself crowd - suddenly had to fork out more cash. Also, thanks to the oil crisis, recession and credit shortages of the early Seventies, people who could still afford to buy and run cars like that wanted a lot more for their money.
Nowadays we find ourselves in the same situation. Incomes are down, petrol prices are up, VAT's at 20% - and £100k+ supercars are selling like hot cakes. Just the right time for the new Esprit then.
Lotus stopped selling kits well before the introduction of VAT at then 8% in 1973 yet sales continued to be strong. Elan sprints, Europa twin Cams and +2s were sold as turnkey cars 71-74.
Additional special car tax was at 10% replacing purchase tax which had been 25%.
Let's see some sales figures for £100,000 + sports cars and supercars selling like hot cakes in the last 2 years. Volume is well down on 3 years ago.
Car sales trend is clearly in the direction of switching to smaller less expensive to buy and run vehicles. Fiesta tops the UK sales charts for 2011 with 100,000 sales with Focus and Corsa behind. Rolls Royce and Bentley have shown small persentage sales increases year on year but they have prestige appeal to the newly weathy business owners in China, India ,Brazil, Middle East, Russia ,California.
From here sports cars with high price tags will find sales harder. New Lotus managements plan to go much higher up the price scale to £80-130,000 is very high risk.
Additional special car tax was at 10% replacing purchase tax which had been 25%.
Let's see some sales figures for £100,000 + sports cars and supercars selling like hot cakes in the last 2 years. Volume is well down on 3 years ago.
Car sales trend is clearly in the direction of switching to smaller less expensive to buy and run vehicles. Fiesta tops the UK sales charts for 2011 with 100,000 sales with Focus and Corsa behind. Rolls Royce and Bentley have shown small persentage sales increases year on year but they have prestige appeal to the newly weathy business owners in China, India ,Brazil, Middle East, Russia ,California.
From here sports cars with high price tags will find sales harder. New Lotus managements plan to go much higher up the price scale to £80-130,000 is very high risk.
Edited by RTH on Wednesday 11th January 13:19
As a viable / credible business Lotus Engineering would no doubt be attractive as a sell off. In stark contrast Lotus Cars and the 6 new models grand plan led by Dani Bahar is a financial disaster waiting to happen, a complete basket case!
I fear for Lotus Cars future. What they have long needed is a strong major OEM ownership with whom shared technology and technical synergies make every sense. From day one it was clear that Proton was not that strong partner, their only significant legacy has been their 15 year bail out fund to support a non profit making division .
I fear for Lotus Cars future. What they have long needed is a strong major OEM ownership with whom shared technology and technical synergies make every sense. From day one it was clear that Proton was not that strong partner, their only significant legacy has been their 15 year bail out fund to support a non profit making division .
Yeloperil said:
I fear for Lotus Cars future. What they have long needed is a strong major OEM ownership with whom shared technology and technical synergies make every sense.
Yes. To my mind Toyota has always been the natural owner for Lotus, but they've never felt the need to buy that brand. Yeloperil said:
As a viable / credible business Lotus Engineering would no doubt be attractive as a sell off. In stark contrast Lotus Cars and the 6 new models grand plan led by Dani Bahar is a financial disaster waiting to happen, a complete basket case!
Why? Seriously, what information do you have access to? Lotus has a platform that is designed specifically to allow short runs of niche vehicles without costing the earth. No other manufacturer has that flexibility or capability. They're more or less taking the strategy one model at a time so there's plenty of room to change the plan as things develop. As a first model the Esprit pretty much defines what they are about.
So where's the problem?
If Proton end up selling, it'll be for political reasons and will knock Lotus back five years. They really can't afford for that to happen.
IfProton
Ozzie Osmond said:
Yeloperil said:
I fear for Lotus Cars future. What they have long needed is a strong major OEM ownership with whom shared technology and technical synergies make every sense.
Yes. To my mind Toyota has always been the natural owner for Lotus, but they've never felt the need to buy that brand. Had they done so, I reckon the motoring landscape would be a lot better. Lotuses would be very reliable, well-made, well-priced and in an advantageous market position, and Toyotas would be light, stylish, innovative and fun to drive. We sneer at the Pious, but imagine if it had been engineered by Lotus? Similarly, imagine the Esprit taking on Ferrari and the Porsche with the 'but what if...' reliability issues replaced with Japanese vicelessness?
t.Tuna said:
Yeloperil said:
As a viable / credible business Lotus Engineering would no doubt be attractive as a sell off. In stark contrast Lotus Cars and the 6 new models grand plan led by Dani Bahar is a financial disaster waiting to happen, a complete basket case!
Why? Seriously, what information do you have access to? Lotus has a platform that is designed specifically to allow short runs of niche vehicles without costing the earth. No other manufacturer has that flexibility or capability. They're more or less taking the strategy one model at a time so there's plenty of room to change the plan as things develop. As a first model the Esprit pretty much defines what they are about.
So where's the problem?
If Proton end up selling, it'll be for political reasons and will knock Lotus back five years. They really can't afford for that to happen.
IfProton
Also, look at VVA, look at the new V8.
It's all modular. All the mid-engined cars are effectively te same car. Esprit, Evora and Elise will be built on the same platform, just lengthened or shortened according to whatever it's underpinning, and the engine will be a V4, V6 or V8 depending on model, with an extra pair of cylinders bolted on each time.
It may look ambitious, but in reality all they're doing is building one car. The chassis is sorted (find one journalist or road-tester with something bad to say about the Evora's handling), and they're currently working on the engine and transmission. Once that's sorted it's just a case of putting it all together and then they can probably be built quite cost-effectively.
These are extremely slick systems being put in place. It's a world away from the old slap-that-bodge-in-there-and-hope-it-stays-together approach of previous years. The fact that so many other manufacturers trust them to engineer critical parts of their cars says it all.
I advertised that we just got lotus dealer in Finland couple years ago. Now there is no dealer, which means zero change for me to buy lotus as next car. I think only sensible way for lotus to improve its network, is to partner with some manufacturer with no sports cars to make the more broadly available and guarantee servicing.
I guess they did not sell here. Cheapest was offered at 49k€ and exige S was about 80k€ which of course was a bit too much for small 4-pot car.
PS: Saving for Alfa 4C 300bhp version
I guess they did not sell here. Cheapest was offered at 49k€ and exige S was about 80k€ which of course was a bit too much for small 4-pot car.
PS: Saving for Alfa 4C 300bhp version
This was from four days ago so not really new news
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/A...
"Bosses at car-maker Lotus have insisted it is "business as usual" despite the Malaysian government selling its controlling stake in its parent company...
..The directors' report to March 2011 showed the firm made a pre-tax loss of £26.1 million, compared to a loss of nearly £12 million in 2010...
..A Group Lotus spokesman said: "It doesn't change anything for us at the moment. The situation that's currently going on in Malaysia doesn't change anything. Our plan remains the same - it's business as usual."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/A...
"Bosses at car-maker Lotus have insisted it is "business as usual" despite the Malaysian government selling its controlling stake in its parent company...
..The directors' report to March 2011 showed the firm made a pre-tax loss of £26.1 million, compared to a loss of nearly £12 million in 2010...
..A Group Lotus spokesman said: "It doesn't change anything for us at the moment. The situation that's currently going on in Malaysia doesn't change anything. Our plan remains the same - it's business as usual."
BSC said:
IIRC 278 cars were registered in UK from January to November. That includes all the factory cars for directors, test vehicles, cars for their European advisors nad VIPs et cetera. Those add up to roughly 50 cars. That means that only 230 cars are sold in the dealerships.
Annual loss, say, £20m. Divide by, say, 1,000 cars sold. Loss per car = £20,000 
Annual loss reduced to, say, £10m. 2,000 cars sold in year. Loss per car = £5,000
Cost of new "Lotus Originals" showroom on London's Regent Street ????
http://www.seloc.org/2012/01/lotus-cars-lotus-take...
Ozzie Osmond said:
Annual loss, say, £20m. Divide by, say, 1,000 cars sold. Loss per car = £20,000
Doesn't quite work like that though, does it? Most years they won't be building new design studios, rebuilding the test track and setting up a new engine facility. After years of chronic under investment, it's all about spending the money right now. I'm surprised it's not a lot more than £20million.Remember the Harvard approved business plan:
Step 1. Collect underpants
Step 2. ?????
Step 3. Profit
We're somewhere in the middle of step 1.
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