The Car Salesman's Thread

[TVR1]

Zwolf said:

Easy enough to have high F&I penetrations if the chassis is paying for it all...

No idea what you're talking about.

[longblackcoat]

TVR1 said:

Do you still get paid on that? We have a fairly 'all or nothing scheme'.To even qualify for your finance commission, we must sell a certain number of cars. And then, the minimum is 50% pen on finance,GAP and paint. So I could very well be at 100% on GAP and finance but if 40% paint..... No commission. Harsh, yes but we work at a very demanding dealership. The upside is very good, bordering on exceptional pay, even in the 'prestige' sector, if you tick all the boxes.

Staff consistently doing 35% at my place will very quickly find themselves looking for another job. Not because they may be crap at the job but simply because they will not make a living.

One of the funniest monthly reviews I ever had was with my then sales manager and F&I manager. Sales manager;

'you've done st this month. Yes, you sold a few cars but they made NO MONEY!!!! Bloody think about things next month'

To be followed by the chap sitting next to him....

'Exceptional month! Great pen, good profits!!! Keep it up! We are counting on you. A good future for you if you keep it up!'



A brilliant trade, isn't it?

I hate this.

I do not want or have ever needed gap cover, paint protection or finance. Which means I must be a nightmare to sell to, which is a pity, as I'd like the person who sells to me to make some commission.

And I even more hate the sort of salesman who batters on and on (and on) about why I should take finance rather than paying cash, or why I need gap cover. It's far too easy to get the impression that the salesman would be happy to sell you anything so long as you financed it, took out gap cover, and had some hugely overpriced paint protection applied to it.

It actually puts me off dealers to the extent that I'd rather pay £40k privately rather than be 'sold' to. Unfortunately, private sellers at this price level are few and far between, so I have to deal with the trade.

And yes: there are exceptional salesmen out there, but they're rare.

[oldnbold]

longblackcoat said:

TVR1 said:

Do you still get paid on that? We have a fairly 'all or nothing scheme'.To even qualify for your finance commission, we must sell a certain number of cars. And then, the minimum is 50% pen on finance,GAP and paint. So I could very well be at 100% on GAP and finance but if 40% paint..... No commission. Harsh, yes but we work at a very demanding dealership. The upside is very good, bordering on exceptional pay, even in the 'prestige' sector, if you tick all the boxes.

Staff consistently doing 35% at my place will very quickly find themselves looking for another job. Not because they may be crap at the job but simply because they will not make a living.

One of the funniest monthly reviews I ever had was with my then sales manager and F&I manager. Sales manager;

'you've done st this month. Yes, you sold a few cars but they made NO MONEY!!!! Bloody think about things next month'

To be followed by the chap sitting next to him....

'Exceptional month! Great pen, good profits!!! Keep it up! We are counting on you. A good future for you if you keep it up!'



A brilliant trade, isn't it?

I hate this.

I do not want or have ever needed gap cover, paint protection or finance. Which means I must be a nightmare to sell to, which is a pity, as I'd like the person who sells to me to make some commission.

And I even more hate the sort of salesman who batters on and on (and on) about why I should take finance rather than paying cash, or why I need gap cover. It's far too easy to get the impression that the salesman would be happy to sell you anything so long as you financed it, took out gap cover, and had some hugely overpriced paint protection applied to it.

It actually puts me off dealers to the extent that I'd rather pay £40k privately rather than be 'sold' to. Unfortunately, private sellers at this price level are few and far between, so I have to deal with the trade.

And yes: there are exceptional salesmen out there, but they're rare.

There are not many dealers where a salesman will make nothing out of selling you just a car. Even old old used stock thats sold at a loss used to earn me £35 or more if the SM put a bounty on it.

I've had customers who have been straight up front with me and said "yes I'll have the car but I don't want any finance/gap/paint/chip/mot/ protection". This is fine so I just get them to sign the SODAN and move on.

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done, you out the door and move on to the next billy who may well have the lot.

[longblackcoat]

oldnbold said:

There are not many dealers where a salesman will make nothing out of selling you just a car. Even old old used stock thats sold at a loss used to earn me £35 or more if the SM put a bounty on it.

I've had customers who have been straight up front with me and said "yes I'll have the car but I don't want any finance/gap/paint/chip/mot/ protection". This is fine so I just get them to sign the SODAN and move on.

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done, you out the door and move on to the next billy who may well have the lot.

I was responding to TVR1's comments above - the commission structure he works to seems to encourage overselling of potentially unwanted products

[oldnbold]

longblackcoat said:

oldnbold said:

There are not many dealers where a salesman will make nothing out of selling you just a car. Even old old used stock thats sold at a loss used to earn me £35 or more if the SM put a bounty on it.

I've had customers who have been straight up front with me and said "yes I'll have the car but I don't want any finance/gap/paint/chip/mot/ protection". This is fine so I just get them to sign the SODAN and move on.

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done, you out the door and move on to the next billy who may well have the lot.

I was responding to TVR1's comments above - the commission structure he works to seems to encourage overselling of potentially unwanted products

Just about every main dealer will have a commission structure and targets in place to encourage the selling of F&I products. Indeed if a salesman sells you 3 or 4 of these products he will make 2 or 3 times more than he makes from selling the car (volume dealers).

Many people have no idea what these products are, therefore the salesman will explain them and the costs. If you already are fully aware you just have to say so.

However I have seen several customers come back in after a write off and complain that they weren't told about GAP insurance. When the deal file is pulled they have always signed the SODAN to say they have been told.

[Zwolf]

oldnbold said:

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done.

That'd be a poor salesperson then, figuratively and literally. .

I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a car different to what they originally came in to buy, bought that day when they'd stated they were only there to look, financed when they were initially adamant about paying cash, sold additional products to and so on and so on. I say that as far from the best salesperson out there also. As will have just about everyone here I expect.

If all you ever sell to people is what they want to buy, when they want to buy it and how they want to buy it - you'll end up a very busy fool and not even well paid for all the work with a close rate somewhere in the order of 1 in 20+ deals - the "white flaggers" who'd already made up their mind to buy X on that day and will have done so whosoever they bumped into on the forecourt/in the showroom and X just happened to be available.

Order takers don't tend to last too long anywhere.

[80quattro]

longblackcoat said:

oldnbold said:

There are not many dealers where a salesman will make nothing out of selling you just a car. Even old old used stock thats sold at a loss used to earn me £35 or more if the SM put a bounty on it.

I've had customers who have been straight up front with me and said "yes I'll have the car but I don't want any finance/gap/paint/chip/mot/ protection". This is fine so I just get them to sign the SODAN and move on.

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done, you out the door and move on to the next billy who may well have the lot.

I was responding to TVR1's comments above - the commission structure he works to seems to encourage overselling of potentially unwanted products

No such thing a overselling. Would a supermarket stop selling a product if they've decided they've sold enough? Its all about building perception of value for money, aka 'selling'. No-one is going to hold a gun to a customer's head.

On a brighter note, I sold my first Maserati today. Fortunately to someone local, as they are about as fragile as a paperbag.

[oldnbold]

Zwolf said:

oldnbold said:

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done.

That'd be a poor salesperson then, figuratively and literally. .

I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a car different to what they originally came in to buy, bought that day when they'd stated they were only there to look, financed when they were initially adamant about paying cash, sold additional products to and so on and so on. I say that as far from the best salesperson out there also. As will have just about everyone here I expect.

If all you ever sell to people is what they want to buy, when they want to buy it and how they want to buy it - you'll end up a very busy fool and not even well paid for all the work with a close rate somewhere in the order of 1 in 20+ deals - the "white flaggers" who'd already made up their mind to buy X on that day and will have done so whosoever they bumped into on the forecourt/in the showroom and X just happened to be available.

Order takers don't tend to last too long anywhere.

I agree fella, I wasn't talking about white flaggers I was refering to the occasional customer who has heard it all before, and tells you straight to your face he aint having any of it.

IMHO you can either waste an hour or more and piss the guy off, or just move on.

[DSLiverpool]

Guys how many punters are aware that the margin is in the add ons / finance I'm guessing not that many. I feel really awkward in a dealers if I'm just buying a (used) car straight cash no paint protection etc etc I'm really aware the sales chap is getting disappointed with each "no thank you" and I don't like it.
Last car bought BM AUC I wanted to give the guy a tip I felt awful, I'm sure I'm the minority and most punters are oblivious to how dealers woirk (or sales in general) but being in sales myself I am a bit too aware.

[TVR1]

longblackcoat said:

I was responding to TVR1's comments above - the commission structure he works to seems to encourage overselling of potentially unwanted products

It is a possibility of course. But not with me or my collegues. We are between a stone and a hard place. On the one hand, we are FSA governed so must probe and question the customer to make sure they know and understand the products that are available but at the same time, know when to back off and not 'hard sell'. But, if the customer chooses not to take GAP, for example, 2 years down the track, I can be pulled up and questioned. I have not met a customers yet that remembered being offered these products and said 'yeah, I thought it was crap so didn't take it' after their car had been written off and wondered why the insurance company didn't give them back what they paid for or covered the minus equity from the finance company. They ALL say 'no, it wasn't offered'.

Except we have a SONAD that says otherwise.

[TVR1]

longblackcoat said:

I was responding to TVR1's comments above - the commission structure he works to seems to encourage overselling of potentially unwanted products

It is a possibility of course. But not with me or my collegues. We are between a stone and a hard place. On the one hand, we are FSA governed so must probe and question the customer to make sure they know and understand the products that are available but at the same time, know when to back off and not 'hard sell'. But, if the customer chooses not to take GAP, for example, 2 years down the track, I can be pulled up and questioned. I have not met a customers yet that remembered being offered these products and said 'yeah, I thought it was crap so didn't take it' after their car had been written off and wondered why the insurance company didn't give them back what they paid for or covered the minus equity from the finance company. They ALL say 'no, it wasn't offered'.

Except we have a SONAD that says otherwise.

[LHD]

oldnbold said:

Zwolf said:

oldnbold said:

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done.

That'd be a poor salesperson then, figuratively and literally. .

I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a car different to what they originally came in to buy, bought that day when they'd stated they were only there to look, financed when they were initially adamant about paying cash, sold additional products to and so on and so on. I say that as far from the best salesperson out there also. As will have just about everyone here I expect.

If all you ever sell to people is what they want to buy, when they want to buy it and how they want to buy it - you'll end up a very busy fool and not even well paid for all the work with a close rate somewhere in the order of 1 in 20+ deals - the "white flaggers" who'd already made up their mind to buy X on that day and will have done so whosoever they bumped into on the forecourt/in the showroom and X just happened to be available.

Order takers don't tend to last too long anywhere.

I agree fella, I wasn't talking about white flaggers I was refering to the occasional customer who has heard it all before, and tells you straight to your face he aint having any of it.

IMHO you can either waste an hour or more and piss the guy off, or just move on.

Thing is,

These guys who've 'heard it all before' when you say - 'well, i was going to give you all of this for nothing but since you don't want them...'

Watch them back-pedal, it's always amusing.

[oldnbold]

LHD said:

oldnbold said:

Zwolf said:

oldnbold said:

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done.

That'd be a poor salesperson then, figuratively and literally. .

I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a car different to what they originally came in to buy, bought that day when they'd stated they were only there to look, financed when they were initially adamant about paying cash, sold additional products to and so on and so on. I say that as far from the best salesperson out there also. As will have just about everyone here I expect.

If all you ever sell to people is what they want to buy, when they want to buy it and how they want to buy it - you'll end up a very busy fool and not even well paid for all the work with a close rate somewhere in the order of 1 in 20+ deals - the "white flaggers" who'd already made up their mind to buy X on that day and will have done so whosoever they bumped into on the forecourt/in the showroom and X just happened to be available.

Order takers don't tend to last too long anywhere.

I agree fella, I wasn't talking about white flaggers I was refering to the occasional customer who has heard it all before, and tells you straight to your face he aint having any of it.

IMHO you can either waste an hour or more and piss the guy off, or just move on.

Thing is,

These guys who've 'heard it all before' when you say - 'well, i was going to give you all of this for nothing but since you don't want them...'

Watch them back-pedal, it's always amusing.

Christ, if anyone gave away 6 months RFL at our place the SM would get the hump, let alone giving any F&I away.

Mind you he wasn't adverse to finding a couple of deals at the end of the month to add something into so he made his target and didn't have to pay us.

[LHD]

oldnbold said:

LHD said:

oldnbold said:

Zwolf said:

oldnbold said:

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done.

That'd be a poor salesperson then, figuratively and literally. .

I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a car different to what they originally came in to buy, bought that day when they'd stated they were only there to look, financed when they were initially adamant about paying cash, sold additional products to and so on and so on. I say that as far from the best salesperson out there also. As will have just about everyone here I expect.

If all you ever sell to people is what they want to buy, when they want to buy it and how they want to buy it - you'll end up a very busy fool and not even well paid for all the work with a close rate somewhere in the order of 1 in 20+ deals - the "white flaggers" who'd already made up their mind to buy X on that day and will have done so whosoever they bumped into on the forecourt/in the showroom and X just happened to be available.

Order takers don't tend to last too long anywhere.

I agree fella, I wasn't talking about white flaggers I was refering to the occasional customer who has heard it all before, and tells you straight to your face he aint having any of it.

IMHO you can either waste an hour or more and piss the guy off, or just move on.

Thing is,

These guys who've 'heard it all before' when you say - 'well, i was going to give you all of this for nothing but since you don't want them...'

Watch them back-pedal, it's always amusing.

Christ, if anyone gave away 6 months RFL at our place the SM would get the hump, let alone giving any F&I away.

Mind you he wasn't adverse to finding a couple of deals at the end of the month to add something into so he made his target and didn't have to pay us.

Funny that we do it when it suits us eh?

[Zwolf]

oldnbold said:

I agree fella, I wasn't talking about white flaggers I was refering to the occasional customer who has heard it all before, and tells you straight to your face he aint having any of it.

IMHO you can either waste an hour or more and piss the guy off, or just move on.

Or you can pass them over to the weakest link who'll be grateful for a dot on the board, owe you a favour and you can carry on with the next prospect...

[oldnbold]

LHD said:

oldnbold said:

LHD said:

oldnbold said:

Zwolf said:

oldnbold said:

Any wise salesman will realise its a no hoper and get the order form done.

That'd be a poor salesperson then, figuratively and literally. .

I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a car different to what they originally came in to buy, bought that day when they'd stated they were only there to look, financed when they were initially adamant about paying cash, sold additional products to and so on and so on. I say that as far from the best salesperson out there also. As will have just about everyone here I expect.

If all you ever sell to people is what they want to buy, when they want to buy it and how they want to buy it - you'll end up a very busy fool and not even well paid for all the work with a close rate somewhere in the order of 1 in 20+ deals - the "white flaggers" who'd already made up their mind to buy X on that day and will have done so whosoever they bumped into on the forecourt/in the showroom and X just happened to be available.

Order takers don't tend to last too long anywhere.

I agree fella, I wasn't talking about white flaggers I was refering to the occasional customer who has heard it all before, and tells you straight to your face he aint having any of it.

IMHO you can either waste an hour or more and piss the guy off, or just move on.

Thing is,

These guys who've 'heard it all before' when you say - 'well, i was going to give you all of this for nothing but since you don't want them...'

Watch them back-pedal, it's always amusing.

Christ, if anyone gave away 6 months RFL at our place the SM would get the hump, let alone giving any F&I away.

Mind you he wasn't adverse to finding a couple of deals at the end of the month to add something into so he made his target and didn't have to pay us.

Funny that we do it when it suits us eh?

[LHD]

Zwolf said:

oldnbold said:

I agree fella, I wasn't talking about white flaggers I was refering to the occasional customer who has heard it all before, and tells you straight to your face he aint having any of it.

IMHO you can either waste an hour or more and piss the guy off, or just move on.

Or you can pass them over to the weakest link who'll be grateful for a dot on the board, owe you a favour and you can carry on with the next prospect...

You cynical .

[AtticusFinch]

DSLiverpool said:

I wanted to give the guy a tip I felt awful

Anyone remember the days when we used to get tips? The routine was customer shakes your hand with a fifty in it? Just selling cars then though no smart repair, paint protection gap or pcp (god i'm old) Just CH HP LP and warranty.

p.s. don't feel awful about tips

[LHD]

AtticusFinch said:

DSLiverpool said:

I wanted to give the guy a tip I felt awful

Anyone remember the days when we used to get tips? The routine was customer shakes your hand with a fifty in it? Just selling cars then though no smart repair, paint protection gap or pcp (god i'm old) Just CH HP LP and warranty.

p.s. don't feel awful about tips

Not had anyone confess to a Mao Tse-tung for ages...

[Deva Link]

Zwolf said:

That'd be a poor salesperson then, figuratively and literally. .

I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a car different to what they originally came in to buy, bought that day when they'd stated they were only there to look, financed when they were initially adamant about paying cash, sold additional products to and so on and so on. I say that as far from the best salesperson out there also. As will have just about everyone here I expect.

If all you ever sell to people is what they want to buy, when they want to buy it and how they want to buy it - you'll end up a very busy fool and not even well paid for all the work with a close rate somewhere in the order of 1 in 20+ deals - the "white flaggers" who'd already made up their mind to buy X on that day and will have done so whosoever they bumped into on the forecourt/in the showroom and X just happened to be available.

Order takers don't tend to last too long anywhere.

Those comments have quietened down the rest of your associates!

Seriously though, I've never been sold the car itself in all the cars I've bought.