The Car Salesman's Thread
Discussion
80quattro said:
longblackcoat said:
I was responding to TVR1's comments above - the commission structure he works to seems to encourage overselling of potentially unwanted products
No such thing a overselling. Would a supermarket stop selling a product if they've decided they've sold enough? Its all about building perception of value for money, aka 'selling'. No-one is going to hold a gun to a customer's head.I'm tempted next time I buy a car to be really upfront with the rep about that side of things - essentially, you tell me what's going to earn you the money, and we'll see if we can negotiate that all into a package where I get the car + 'elements that help you earn' at the price I'm happy to pay for it. That way everyone's happy.
I remember the days of crap commission as an Estate Agent, and frankly if it doesn't cost me anything extra, I'm happy to help you earn your way.
I remember the days of crap commission as an Estate Agent, and frankly if it doesn't cost me anything extra, I'm happy to help you earn your way.
Deva Link said:
There's some suggestion that customers be given a break down of the salesman's commission so the customer understands the incentive that the salesman is getting for pushing each element of the deal.
What does that have to do with whether the product in question is suitable and appropriate for the buyer's needs and the price being asked is acceptable? Incentives can vary hugely among dealer groups, even across the same brand and for the same insurance product sold at the same price. The trouble is that people will always assume that every salesperson earns the maximum.
For GAP policies sold at around £400, I've been remunerated anywhere between half the net profit and 10% of the net profit and a discretionary £15-30 subject to meeting other performance factors, like delivering >superlative of choice< customer service.
How much the seller earns from selling a thing has the square root of bugger all to do with whether it's the right thing for you to buy and the right price for you to pay.
All that happens is "Oh, so you're paid X for selling this thing. In that case I will pay you the price, minus X". Brilliant.
My uncle bought a car from me recently as he had written off his Vectra, the garage who he bought the Vectra from 4 years previously, sat him and my aunt in a small room with a tv and video player and they had to watch a video explaining the benefits of GAP and paint protection, utterly bizarre.
We aren't targeted as such, on add ons.
We have two levels of GAP cover and two levels of G-3 (paint protection), the cheaper ones obviously pay out less however its not on any sliding scale, each one pays the same per unit regardless of penetration, however if we sell both of them to a customer we get an additional payment on top of the commission for each one.
It's the same with finance, we aren't targeted either, we just get a straight 20% of finance commission generated for the business.
We aren't targeted as such, on add ons.
We have two levels of GAP cover and two levels of G-3 (paint protection), the cheaper ones obviously pay out less however its not on any sliding scale, each one pays the same per unit regardless of penetration, however if we sell both of them to a customer we get an additional payment on top of the commission for each one.
It's the same with finance, we aren't targeted either, we just get a straight 20% of finance commission generated for the business.
Deva Link said:
There's some suggestion that customers be given a break down of the salesman's commission so the customer understands the incentive that the salesman is getting for pushing each element of the deal.
Others have been been polite Deva but i have no need to be. Really. In your B2B sales, do you declare your mark up and commission? Of course you don't. You are once again being a cock. And a troll of the worst order, in that you see no merit in what any of us do for a living but only choose to criticise whilst knowing that we have a bloody good time doing it and are jealous of both the income we have and the fun.If you are so unhappy with your life Deva, perhaps look for something else.
But in the mean time, please take your misery and negativity somewhere else on PH. You are not welcome on thus thread anymore.
Seriously.
Deva Link said:
There's some suggestion that customers be given a break down of the salesman's commission so the customer understands the incentive that the salesman is getting for pushing each element of the deal.
Others have been been polite Deva but i have no need to be. Really. In your B2B sales, do you declare your mark up and commission? Of course you don't. You are once again being a cock. And a troll of the worst order, in that you see no merit in what any of us do for a living but only choose to criticise whilst knowing that we have a bloody good time doing it and are jealous of both the income we have and the fun.If you are so unhappy with your life Deva, perhaps look for something else.
But in the mean time, please take your misery and negativity somewhere else on PH. You are not welcome on this thread anymore.
Seriously. I'm a bit annoyed just now.
elvismiggell said:
We'll see if we can negotiate that all into a package where I get the car + 'elements that help you earn' at the price I'm happy to pay for it.
That's what happens anyway! 
Assume that every thing a salesperson offers you will earn them something. The specifics aren't relevant and we're not generally charity cases.
The best thing you can generally do and that will make a difference to a salesperson's quality of job satisfaction and eventually earnings is to bung their Dealer Principal/Sales Manager/General Manager and even the manufacturer's customer service arm a thank you letter.
Such things stand out in this business like little else. Thank you cards from satisfied customers are actually great to receive - and are useful bargaining chips in improving our lot at work. That's the way the industry is going and the direction by which commission structures will be increasingly rewritten to take into account. A file full of letters like that is a valuable asset at interview time and will become increasingly so in years ahead.
A colleague of mine recently moved brand within the same dealer group. The most gruelling part of the (four stage) interview process was the drilling down into and going over of his last year's CSI and mystery shop (both internal and manufacturer) scores and reports in fine detail. This was way more intensive than the attention paid to profit per unit, conversion and closing rates and F&I penetration and profit.
Deva Link said:
2 hours+ in the case of the Golf I bought last year. Pissed off doesn't begin to describe it - it was only that they had a car in stock (unusual 18mths ago for Golf) that I stuck with it.
Yep, I've had this. Walked out of a Mercedes dealership, despite the fact they had the car I wanted, at a decent price, because they were insistent that I had to do a ridiculous video-interview to be approved for finance, even though I was absolutely positive that I just didn't want it.I'll never go back to that particular dealership again.
Zwolf said:
The best thing you can generally do and that will make a difference to a salesperson's quality of job satisfaction and eventually earnings is to bung their Dealer Principal/Sales Manager/General Manager and even the manufacturer's customer service arm a thank you letter.
Done exactly that in the past. Do it a lot in my current job - our employer actively encourages calling out those who 'go beyond'.longblackcoat said:
Yep, I've had this. Walked out of a Mercedes dealership, despite the fact they had the car I wanted, at a decent price, because they were insistent that I had to do a ridiculous video-interview to be approved for finance, even though I was absolutely positive that I just didn't want it.
I'll never go back to that particular dealership again.
Twaddle. I'll never go back to that particular dealership again.
Why didnt you just buy it then?
'unhelpful' dealership can often be translated as 'they wouldn't give me the discount I wanted'.
Edited by TVR1 on Thursday 11th October 23:22
TVR1 said:
In your B2B sales, do you declare your mark up and commission? Of course you don't.
In my business it's pretty well known what the commission rates are and I tell anyone who asks. They're usually surprised how low they are and the problem that causes is a customer has to be able to spend a pretty chunky amount ($250K/yr) or it's just not worth talking to them and they sometimes get pissed off about that. It costs $1000 for me to go and visit someone. However consumer sales are a different kettle of fish. It's not much of a stretch that the forthcoming Retail Distribution Review (RDR) commission ban could be applied to F&I products sold to retail customer by car dealers.
TVR1 said:
Twaddle.
Why didnt you just buy it then?
'unhelpful' dealership can often be translated as 'they wouldn't give me the discount I wanted'.
I wish I'd have been able to walk out of the Golf purchase but I was buying it for my daughter, although she was at least as pissed off with the salesman as I was.Why didnt you just buy it then?
'unhelpful' dealership can often be translated as 'they wouldn't give me the discount I wanted'.
MB Direct, although the sales guy was very good with the car, we came a cropper when we got the finance bit. They'd included StarShield in the invoice price without previously mentioning it and I asked them to take it out. They refused. So I refused to sign the StarShield docs.
We reached a bit of stand off. My leased company car had just been collected from outside the showroom (and they knew that) and I was 100 miles from home. In the end they said if I signed they'd give me the phone system cradle (it's a click-in thing in a Merc and costs £150ish) FOC. So I signed.
Deva Link said:
TVR1 said:
Twaddle.
Why didnt you just buy it then?
'unhelpful' dealership can often be translated as 'they wouldn't give me the discount I wanted'.
I wish I'd have been able to walk out of the Golf purchase but I was buying it for my daughter, although she was at least as pissed off with the salesman as I was.Why didnt you just buy it then?
'unhelpful' dealership can often be translated as 'they wouldn't give me the discount I wanted'.
MB Direct, although the sales guy was very good with the car, we came a cropper when we got the finance bit. They'd included StarShield in the invoice price without previously mentioning it and I asked them to take it out. They refused. So I refused to sign the StarShield docs.
We reached a bit of stand off. My leased company car had just been collected from outside the showroom (and they knew that) and I was 100 miles from home. In the end they said if I signed they'd give me the phone system cradle (it's a click-in thing in a Merc and costs £150ish) FOC. So I signed.
You had agreed a price to change, does it matter what the dealer has included?
TVR1 said:
So, happy to make a profit where you can then, evening it means having one over on your employer? Nice. I'm happy that you are someone else's employee.
I'm not having one over - 45p is the standard mileage allowance allowed by HMRC without it attracting tax. Lots of companies pay it, or they pay a fixed monthly allowance and then a lower mileage rate. If you get a lower rate (even if you also get a fixed allowance) HMRC will give you back the tax on the difference.
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