RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Honda Civic Type R (EP3)
Discussion
Antj said:
Chris,
Show me a better FWD car as an all rounder for £2500
The Ep3 Civic type R is the perfomance bargain of the century, it has very little downside.
End of
The ATR. Hands down a better package. Show me a better FWD car as an all rounder for £2500
The Ep3 Civic type R is the perfomance bargain of the century, it has very little downside.
End of
EDIT: (I love a balanced and referenced argument! Better handling, much better steering feel & feedback, faster, better looking....Lol)
Edited by carsnapper on Wednesday 11th January 14:35
otolith said:
LuS1fer said:
The alternative was a crappy Focus ST170
I always find perceptions of the Focus's power delivery interesting, given what people say about the Civic's:
Well, that does tie in with the general perception at the time of the Focus being a bit weak all round for a warm hatch, let alone a hot one...
carsnapper said:
The ATR. Hands down a better package.
EDIT: (I love a balanced and referenced argument! Better handling, much better steering feel & feedback, faster, better looking....Lol)
Does the CTR suffer from synchro problems like the DC2 and ATR do?EDIT: (I love a balanced and referenced argument! Better handling, much better steering feel & feedback, faster, better looking....Lol)
Edited by carsnapper on Wednesday 11th January 14:35
I think the tyres were a serious limiting factor. I bought mine new in March 2002, kept it 2 years and did 20k miles. In that time it needed new fronts three or four times; each time I stuck to the OE Bridgestone RE040s.
When new they were lovely and it was very easy to place; when worn it followed lorry ruts and tramlined like mad. On its day I thoroughly enjoyed caning it, but out of its comfort zone it was an easy decision to replace it with an automatic barge.
Having said that, it was characterful and spacious, very cheap for the performance and I can see why it sold so well. I still have occasional thoughts of getting another just for caning, but I'm a bit old for that now.
When new they were lovely and it was very easy to place; when worn it followed lorry ruts and tramlined like mad. On its day I thoroughly enjoyed caning it, but out of its comfort zone it was an easy decision to replace it with an automatic barge.
Having said that, it was characterful and spacious, very cheap for the performance and I can see why it sold so well. I still have occasional thoughts of getting another just for caning, but I'm a bit old for that now.
carsnapper said:
The ATR. Hands down a better package.
EDIT: (I love a balanced and referenced argument! Better handling, much better steering feel & feedback, faster, better looking....Lol)
How, the Accord is no where near as upgradable as the Civic and is a lot slower out of the box. being rarer its prices are actually more solid than the Ep3.EDIT: (I love a balanced and referenced argument! Better handling, much better steering feel & feedback, faster, better looking....Lol)
Edited by carsnapper on Wednesday 11th January 14:35
900T-R said:
vz-r_dave said:
What would happen in a Clio 182, the 306 Rallye,
You'd have enough low-end grunt not to be embarrassed by shopping trolleys in traffic and a nice gutsy midrange. 
kingstondc5 said:
DanDC5 said:
Think the FD2 is even harder than the DC5 isn't it?
I believe so but ive not driven one in comparison so can only go by FD2 owners suggestions/comparisons to a DC5.Theres a youtube vid of a good tussle between the FD2 and DC5 in the UK on a trackday somewhere
mooseracer said:
Does the CTR suffer from synchro problems like the DC2 and ATR do?
Yes, but not anywhere near as bad.900T-R said:
Well, that does tie in with the general perception at the time of the Focus being a bit weak all round for a warm hatch, let alone a hot one...
I've got the Evo and CAR first drives in front of me, and they're both positive, and neither accuses the car of lacking low down torque.otolith said:
900T-R said:
Well, that does tie in with the general perception at the time of the Focus being a bit weak all round for a warm hatch, let alone a hot one...
I've got the Evo and CAR first drives in front of me, and they're both positive, and neither accuses the car of lacking low down torque.RobCrezz said:
otolith said:
900T-R said:
Well, that does tie in with the general perception at the time of the Focus being a bit weak all round for a warm hatch, let alone a hot one...
I've got the Evo and CAR first drives in front of me, and they're both positive, and neither accuses the car of lacking low down torque...its always been a bit of a marmite car , as is the FN2...if you like a harsh ride, great seats, great gearbox, thrashy engine and twitchy steering then you'll love em...if you prefer mid range grunt, softer ride etc then chances are you probably won't take to it....doesn't make it crap, just different....horses for courses...at least its something "different" to the norm.
I have to agree with the article. I owned one. Found the gearbox and engine to be one of the best I've had in any car but found the car to be seriously compromised in every other way.
Wheel travel was awful, being one the few cars where you would regularly feel it hit its bumpstops.
It was insanely noisy at motorway speeds, up there with an S1 Elise.
it rode so badly over the standard B road that you felt the need to slow down because you thought you'd bounce off the road.
The turn circle made getting it around the standard multi storey a multi point turn event in tight continental car parks.
It never handled with any real conviction, turn in was imprecise and it never felt like a i had the right line, maybe it was understeer or just bad driving but I was constantly adjusting my line through corners. I've never noticed that in other cars as much.
Oh and I know this is unusual, the thing broke, badly, three times.
It did have a big boot though..and the engine and gearbox were sublime.
Wheel travel was awful, being one the few cars where you would regularly feel it hit its bumpstops.
It was insanely noisy at motorway speeds, up there with an S1 Elise.
it rode so badly over the standard B road that you felt the need to slow down because you thought you'd bounce off the road.
The turn circle made getting it around the standard multi storey a multi point turn event in tight continental car parks.
It never handled with any real conviction, turn in was imprecise and it never felt like a i had the right line, maybe it was understeer or just bad driving but I was constantly adjusting my line through corners. I've never noticed that in other cars as much.
Oh and I know this is unusual, the thing broke, badly, three times.
It did have a big boot though..and the engine and gearbox were sublime.
Good article chris.
As always its horses for courses and hot hatches seem to polarise opinion the most given their affordability to the masses.
Like with anything people, feel the need to justify their purchases/opinions to others(insecurity anyone?)
The type r was released at a time when lots of electronic tech/driver aids started to become mainstream. The ep3 was caught in the middle.
Like any business Honda produced a car to make maximum profit and trade-offs are always present.
In 2012 do people complain about having electric power steering, fly by wire throttles, automated gearboxes and the like? No. The tech has become mainstream and very effective in lots of cases. Now many new cars offer a rewarding driving experience without so many compromises.
Back in 2001 the type r was a compromised car but was very competent in comparison to its contemporaries.
Of course a standard car isn't going to tick all the boxes for the enthusiast, but what does?
The type r is a good car but the game has moved on. However a car with such a good engine and gearbox as a cheap second hand fun car the ep3 is hard to ignore.
As always its horses for courses and hot hatches seem to polarise opinion the most given their affordability to the masses.
Like with anything people, feel the need to justify their purchases/opinions to others(insecurity anyone?)
The type r was released at a time when lots of electronic tech/driver aids started to become mainstream. The ep3 was caught in the middle.
Like any business Honda produced a car to make maximum profit and trade-offs are always present.
In 2012 do people complain about having electric power steering, fly by wire throttles, automated gearboxes and the like? No. The tech has become mainstream and very effective in lots of cases. Now many new cars offer a rewarding driving experience without so many compromises.
Back in 2001 the type r was a compromised car but was very competent in comparison to its contemporaries.
Of course a standard car isn't going to tick all the boxes for the enthusiast, but what does?
The type r is a good car but the game has moved on. However a car with such a good engine and gearbox as a cheap second hand fun car the ep3 is hard to ignore.
All other things being equal, peak power and weight will tell you pretty much everything about acceleration. Radically different torque curves - say a supercharged engine versus a high revving NA - will mess things up a bit, but the comparison of one Honda VTEC against another should be pretty straightforward.
The only time I've seen an EK9 accelerate hard on the road, it was surprisingly slow, but maybe it was knackered.
The only time I've seen an EK9 accelerate hard on the road, it was surprisingly slow, but maybe it was knackered.
I drove a couple of ep3's. A modded one and a standard one. TBH i think its a really nice car, definitely good value for money as you can pick one up for around 3k now. I liked the fact that you can just drive around and stick to the speed limits but when you need to.....hit that 5.5rpm and you're off. I think the appeal to me was the sort of split personality the engine had. Suspension was firm but I dont mind that. Steering wasn't all that but didnt put me off the car as the modded one was on coilovers so handled really well. I do love turbo'd cars but you feel as though you're constantly using it whereas you dont need the vtec constantly in the civic. Also noticed on the civic like you could in the older VTi's, drive around doing 30-40mph in 4th, 5th or the CTR's case 6th gear. I think the problem is a lot of people do not know how to use a VTEC. Ive known guys with VTEC's that didnt even know when the power kicked in!!!! You have to know how to keep it in the power range and you could get a lot out of this car.
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