RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Honda Civic Type R (EP3)
Discussion
After reading half of the thread and getting bored, it's amazing, how many people actually complain about the lack or torque and shove below VTEC. What in the blue hell were yo expecting from a N/A 2.0 Litre.
And these same people say a clio 172/182 is better. What the hell? it's exactly the same in it's delivery yet it lacks the end fizz of the Civic.
LOLs.
And these same people say a clio 172/182 is better. What the hell? it's exactly the same in it's delivery yet it lacks the end fizz of the Civic.
LOLs.
Daniel1 said:
why did you buy three then 
Mind you, I have had an MX5 in the past. Enjoyed it, never fell in love with it and much preferred my MR2 Turbo. But I still look at MX5's and think of the good times and the fun I had in it, rather than the bad things such as:- Lack of air con
- Dripping roof door seal
- crap seats
- Oversized steering wheel
- lack of 6th gear
Baryonyx said:
Mind you, I have had an MX5 in the past. Enjoyed it, never fell in love with it and much preferred my MR2 Turbo. But I still look at MX5's and think of the good times and the fun I had in it, rather than the bad things such as:
Air con in eunos- Lack of air con
- Dripping roof door seal
- crap seats
- Oversized steering wheel
- lack of 6th gear
Wheel is cheap replacement , many came with momo
Rs had buckets
....
I disagree with the statement.
I first drove an EP3 Civic Type R about 4 years ago. It was a 2004 facelift model from my local Honda dealer. First impressions left me a bit underwhelmed if I am honest- at the time I had a 2001 Accord Type R, and the Accord sat lower, had a meatier steering feel, sounded more aggressive when you crossed over into VTEC, had a limited slip diff (yes you DO notice these things if you actually like to drive hard- I do), just a generally better-feeling drivers car.
I therefore decided not to go ahead and purchase the civic on the basis that while it was good, it wasn't really special.
A couple years on and the Accord went and in it's place passed a couple different cars, a 02 Impreza Sti PPP and a modified Nissan 200sx, but none of those cars left me with that same sensation of fun which I got from taking the engine and thrashing it to the the redline and imagining you're leading the way in the BTCC, despite their power outputs. I then test drove a Mk5 Golf GTI and was completely disappointed. It is a very accomplished car in many respects but it does not feel like how I imagined a hot-hatch should be. Its quiet, civilized, too refined. I test drove a Focus ST, a bit more fun but again it felt very refined, a tad heavy and a bit understeery on the bends.
I then realised none of these sorts of modern hot-hatches are going to be able to replicate the outright 'feel' of my old Accord Type R, so I started looking at Honda's again.
Despite my low-opinion of the Civic Type R, I saw one at a good price and went for a test drive. This time I drove it properly and out came a very decent car. Yes it's chassis is a tad twitchy, its very raw feeling (but I like that) and in the wet it is next to useless, but I found myself taking that engine to the 8k redline and dropping that slick rifle-bolt 6-speeder and I was in heaven. The steering feel was certainly a step down from the Accord and a bit numb, but if you learn to dance to it's flow the Civic Type R is a jaw-dropping b-road companion. Just the responsive throttle, that wailing engine and that feel of “basic-but-race-ready” that all the old hot hatches of the 80s have... it's still all there. A mate of mine was overtaking Caterhams in his stock Civic Type R at castlecomb which also proves my point. All in a package that it cheap enough to insure and run, bullet-proof mechanicals and can do 30mpg if you behave yourself.
I purchased the car then and there and had an amazing 2 years with it. I then sold up for a big power Jap turbo car (430hp GTO) and then my current car, my Audi S2 Avant which I love for it's muscular power delivery (it is tuned to 350bhp RS2+ spec) and it's alweather performance, but now as funny as it sounds, I'm missing my manic revvy little hot hatch.
Recently I drove the FN2 Type R, and although it's interior is lightyears improved it seems to have lost some of that excitement- yes it is sure footed, but it feels more grown up and lacks the same slightly suicidal excitement. Yes the EP3 is technically flawed in areas, but it is often the flawed models that are quirky, and in this case the most exciting.
I also had a ride in my friend's 182 and it was a hoot, really impressive, but yet I would personally prefer the stronger-built, slightly racier feeling EP3 Civic.
So my S2 Avant is currently up for sale on PH. Somebody please by it, she is gorgeous. When I passed my test all those years ago I said I wouldn't buy the same car twice, but once the S2 is gone I'm going to look for another facelift EP3 Civic Type R.
I first drove an EP3 Civic Type R about 4 years ago. It was a 2004 facelift model from my local Honda dealer. First impressions left me a bit underwhelmed if I am honest- at the time I had a 2001 Accord Type R, and the Accord sat lower, had a meatier steering feel, sounded more aggressive when you crossed over into VTEC, had a limited slip diff (yes you DO notice these things if you actually like to drive hard- I do), just a generally better-feeling drivers car.
I therefore decided not to go ahead and purchase the civic on the basis that while it was good, it wasn't really special.
A couple years on and the Accord went and in it's place passed a couple different cars, a 02 Impreza Sti PPP and a modified Nissan 200sx, but none of those cars left me with that same sensation of fun which I got from taking the engine and thrashing it to the the redline and imagining you're leading the way in the BTCC, despite their power outputs. I then test drove a Mk5 Golf GTI and was completely disappointed. It is a very accomplished car in many respects but it does not feel like how I imagined a hot-hatch should be. Its quiet, civilized, too refined. I test drove a Focus ST, a bit more fun but again it felt very refined, a tad heavy and a bit understeery on the bends.
I then realised none of these sorts of modern hot-hatches are going to be able to replicate the outright 'feel' of my old Accord Type R, so I started looking at Honda's again.
Despite my low-opinion of the Civic Type R, I saw one at a good price and went for a test drive. This time I drove it properly and out came a very decent car. Yes it's chassis is a tad twitchy, its very raw feeling (but I like that) and in the wet it is next to useless, but I found myself taking that engine to the 8k redline and dropping that slick rifle-bolt 6-speeder and I was in heaven. The steering feel was certainly a step down from the Accord and a bit numb, but if you learn to dance to it's flow the Civic Type R is a jaw-dropping b-road companion. Just the responsive throttle, that wailing engine and that feel of “basic-but-race-ready” that all the old hot hatches of the 80s have... it's still all there. A mate of mine was overtaking Caterhams in his stock Civic Type R at castlecomb which also proves my point. All in a package that it cheap enough to insure and run, bullet-proof mechanicals and can do 30mpg if you behave yourself.
I purchased the car then and there and had an amazing 2 years with it. I then sold up for a big power Jap turbo car (430hp GTO) and then my current car, my Audi S2 Avant which I love for it's muscular power delivery (it is tuned to 350bhp RS2+ spec) and it's alweather performance, but now as funny as it sounds, I'm missing my manic revvy little hot hatch.
Recently I drove the FN2 Type R, and although it's interior is lightyears improved it seems to have lost some of that excitement- yes it is sure footed, but it feels more grown up and lacks the same slightly suicidal excitement. Yes the EP3 is technically flawed in areas, but it is often the flawed models that are quirky, and in this case the most exciting.
I also had a ride in my friend's 182 and it was a hoot, really impressive, but yet I would personally prefer the stronger-built, slightly racier feeling EP3 Civic.
So my S2 Avant is currently up for sale on PH. Somebody please by it, she is gorgeous. When I passed my test all those years ago I said I wouldn't buy the same car twice, but once the S2 is gone I'm going to look for another facelift EP3 Civic Type R.
Jazz360 said:
A mate of mine was overtaking Caterhams in his stock Civic Type R at castlecomb which also proves my point.
Hmmm, I`m not quite sure what point you think that proves. The Caterham drivers were rubbish/not confident? They were novices? They were testing new settings? It was very wet? Your friend is Schumacher in disguise? They were not driving to their full potential and he was?Perhaps a 2nd drive of the other cars will leave you loving those too, as it is only the Honda that you gave the 2nd chance to.
You raise a good point, the Caterham thing is meaningless but by what I saw the Civic is a caprable car IF it is used by a driver who is in tune.
The feel I am after is a raw and basic hot hatch without incurring the maintenance costs of one of the old school hot hatches.
In my mind the Civic Type R fulfils that just fine.
The feel I am after is a raw and basic hot hatch without incurring the maintenance costs of one of the old school hot hatches.
In my mind the Civic Type R fulfils that just fine.
rb5er said:
Jazz360 said:
A mate of mine was overtaking Caterhams in his stock Civic Type R at castlecomb which also proves my point.
Hmmm, I`m not quite sure what point you think that proves. The Caterham drivers were rubbish/not confident? They were novices? They were testing new settings? It was very wet? Your friend is Schumacher in disguise? They were not driving to their full potential and he was?Perhaps a 2nd drive of the other cars will leave you loving those too, as it is only the Honda that you gave the 2nd chance to.
Proves nothing.
Sorry for digging up an old topic.
I feel the civic type r has been given a bad review, one being the steering being corrupted by the power delivery? Not sure what is ment by this but I feel the steering to be very positive, direct, well balanced and to have good feedback and Iam not just saying this. Power delivery, hmm I know for certain there is no tourqe steer as they use half shafts to elimanate that problem, yes vtec does come in with punch. So in turn if your not using the 6 speed close ratio gearbox to its full potential and keeping it above that magic vtec crossover point yeah its gonna give you abit of difficulty. For understeer to happen in that car, either driving capabilities are some what limited or just being silly with it.
The chassie is very good a little twitchy on the back if not careful but if you get a fast road setup on the car does make the car more neutral and easier to drive for the less talented drivers.
Yes its not the fastest hot hatch for raw power but you meet it on a twisty b road, you better be bringing something better than cupra fr to the race to win
My rant over, thank you for reading my post.
I feel the civic type r has been given a bad review, one being the steering being corrupted by the power delivery? Not sure what is ment by this but I feel the steering to be very positive, direct, well balanced and to have good feedback and Iam not just saying this. Power delivery, hmm I know for certain there is no tourqe steer as they use half shafts to elimanate that problem, yes vtec does come in with punch. So in turn if your not using the 6 speed close ratio gearbox to its full potential and keeping it above that magic vtec crossover point yeah its gonna give you abit of difficulty. For understeer to happen in that car, either driving capabilities are some what limited or just being silly with it.
The chassie is very good a little twitchy on the back if not careful but if you get a fast road setup on the car does make the car more neutral and easier to drive for the less talented drivers.
Yes its not the fastest hot hatch for raw power but you meet it on a twisty b road, you better be bringing something better than cupra fr to the race to win
My rant over, thank you for reading my post.
I loved our 2004 facelift CTR. I concede it did tend to feel a bit like a white good in terms of character but the engine and gearbox were sublime nad I don't recall any issues with the steering either (unlike an Astra GTE 16v I once owned which I hated because all it dod was play scrabble).
Aside from that, my wife says you're wrong and she's never wrong so get over it.
Aside from that, my wife says you're wrong and she's never wrong so get over it.
Haha 
That's what they like to think
The car really does have to be driven on the limits, to grab it by the horns but at the same time to have the delicate touch if that makes sense lol
Well for me a sublime car without any flaws, yes the type r requires that certain driver you has to work hard to be reward greatly. so I can see how it doesnt appeal to the masses.
That is the only way to realise the true potential of the last real type r, I consider the ep3.
That's what they like to think
The car really does have to be driven on the limits, to grab it by the horns but at the same time to have the delicate touch if that makes sense lol
Well for me a sublime car without any flaws, yes the type r requires that certain driver you has to work hard to be reward greatly. so I can see how it doesnt appeal to the masses.
That is the only way to realise the true potential of the last real type r, I consider the ep3.
aaronvti said:
That is the only way to realise the true potential of the last real type r, I consider the ep3.
Pffft, the EP3 was a weak excuse for a Type R. Cracking car, no doubt, but last real one? The DC5 maybe, FD2 certainly, but most Hondaholics would rate only the FN2 below the EP3 in the hall of Type R fame.Sorry I missed type that I ment as any other type r made after it isn't as track orientated and deviates from the meaning of typ r . Sure the ek9 type r with its rev hungry b16b, being a track monster is epic iv driven many times and adore dc 2 is good but doesn't have the edge like than ek9. The dc5 and ep3 yes not as raw as the early models mentioned but still has that edgey side yet being comfortable. All these models for me are the definition of wat a type r stands for anything after isnt really one. Plus they are even better f you have ever had the lucky chance to own or driven a mugen ep3 type r
dc 2 is good but doesn't have the edge like than ek9. The dc5 and ep3 yes not as raw as the early models mentioned but still has that edgey side yet being comfortable. All these models for me are the definition of wat a type r stands for anything after isnt really one. Plus they are even better f you have ever had the lucky chance to own or driven a mugen ep3 type r aaronvti said:
Plus they are even better f you have ever had the lucky chance to own or driven a mugen ep3 type r
Lad round my way supposedly has a 'Mugen' EP3. It's just got a damaged bodykit, loads of stickers and a list of undisclosed 'mods under the bonnet'. Probably a painted rocker cover and some Mugen resevoir socks... 
Was there actually such a thing as a Mugen EP3 though? The only official Mugen models I was aware of were the FN2 and FD2 'RR'?
Yeah you do get, the em wannabes, yes they did but it was on the jdm market I think. Very rare beasts. U know its a real mugen because it has the metal tags with the serial codes dotted in the engine bay . So they can be traced.
And the mugen civic ep3 type r was the only one to come in championship white none of the normal edition had that colour choice.
And the mugen civic ep3 type r was the only one to come in championship white none of the normal edition had that colour choice.
aaronvti said:
And the mugen civic ep3 type r was the only one to come in championship white none of the normal edition had that colour choice.
So much wrong it's untrue. The championship white EP3's are all JDM versions with 220bhp, Recaro's and LSD all standard. There was a lightweight edition with manual windows and no aircon but never an official Mugen EP3. Mugen did produce parts for the EP3, front splitter, grille, wheels,suspension, rear wing, exhaust, manifold, airbox and interior bits. But the parts were only available to buy separately in the same way you'd buy any other tuning parts.
aaronvti said:
I'm sorry but if u readymy post properly I do explain that the mugen type r is Jdm and its the only one to come in the champoinship white colour.
So befor u start telling le I'm wrong please read it first thank you
I think you are talking about the FN2.... rather than the EP3?So befor u start telling le I'm wrong please read it first thank you
aaronvti said:
I'm sorry but if u readymy post properly I do explain that the mugen type r is Jdm and its the only one to come in the champoinship white colour.
So befor u start telling le I'm wrong please read it first thank you
I've seen CW EP3s though, they are just JDM models, not Mugens?So befor u start telling le I'm wrong please read it first thank you
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