RE: Lotus parent company sold

[Tuna]

Scuffers said:

the car has failed BECAUSE of marketing, or more to the point, whoever thought there was a market for a mid-engined 2+2.

I don't think you can write off the Evora just yet - it's had a difficult birth in the middle of the biggest financial crisis this generation has seen. An entirely new product is always going to struggle to establish itself when people are turning to 'safe' choices in the face of uncertainty.

[tridave]

Tuna said:

Totally agreed. I had a deposit down on the M250 and was gutted when they canned it.

On the other hand, there were concerns about the car and I could understand why they stopped it as it was. It had a great paper spec, great presence but the packaging needed some working on. Stopping the project seemed to knock the fight out of the company.

Yeah that's due to the fact they where carrying all the R&D debt for the M250, then they did the same with the MSC project.

[kambites]

thewheelman said:

8vFTW said:

Builder of under powered poncy bath tubs in not a viable business shocker.

You'll get flamed for that, people don't seem to like the truth

I never thought I'd see the word "poncy" used in relation to the Elise, of all things.

[MX7]

zebedee said:

The buyers were confused because they are idiots

I love the lengths people will go to to defend 'their' brand.

[kambites]

MX7 said:

zebedee said:

The buyers were confused because they are idiots

I love the lengths people will go to to defend 'their' brand.

Quite.

The thing is, even if he's right and the buyers are idiots, it's a monumental failing by Lotus to not take that into account when designing and marketing their cars. From a business point of view, the only good products are the ones that make money, one way or another.

[Scuffers]

thewheelman said:

8vFTW said:

Builder of under powered poncy bath tubs in not a viable business shocker.

You'll get flamed for that, people don't seem to like the truth

Problem is, whichever way you look at it, you can always level that argument against Lotus.

right or wrong this may be, it would be far better for Lotus if for once in their lives, they could actually put an engine in from day one that EXCEEDED the expectations of the potential customers instead of having to use the tired old expression 'but it will have them in the corners'

look at the history, the Esprit for example, took 21 years to get a V8 in it (1975 to 1996 - by which time it was too late), the Evora launched with a 280Hp V6 (when the supercharged option was already available to them). etc etc.

[10 Pence Short]

Tuna said:

Scuffers said:

the car has failed BECAUSE of marketing, or more to the point, whoever thought there was a market for a mid-engined 2+2.

I don't think you can write off the Evora just yet - it's had a difficult birth in the middle of the biggest financial crisis this generation has seen. An entirely new product is always going to struggle to establish itself when people are turning to 'safe' choices in the face of uncertainty.

How old is the Evora? If it was going to succeed, it would have done it by now.

[kambites]

Scuffers said:

Problem is, whichever way you look at it, you can always level that argument against Lotus.

right or wrong this may be, it would be far better for Lotus if for once in their lives, they could actually put an engine in from day one that EXCEEDED the expectations of the potential customers instead of having to use the tired old expression 'but it will have them in the corners'

look at the history, the Esprit for example, took 21 years to get a V8 in it (1975 to 1996 - by which time it was too late), the Evora launched with a 280Hp V6 (when the supercharged option was already available to them). etc etc.

They could do with screwing them together right from day-one, too. Using your customers as a significant part of your testing programme is not a way to endear yourself to them.

[Scuffers]

10 Pence Short said:

Tuna said:

Scuffers said:

the car has failed BECAUSE of marketing, or more to the point, whoever thought there was a market for a mid-engined 2+2.

I don't think you can write off the Evora just yet - it's had a difficult birth in the middle of the biggest financial crisis this generation has seen. An entirely new product is always going to struggle to establish itself when people are turning to 'safe' choices in the face of uncertainty.

How old is the Evora? If it was going to succeed, it would have done it by now.

launched mid 2009....

At the time, all the reviews were glowing, (even Clarkson liked it), Autocar awarded it Britain's Best Driver's Car 2009, Evo gave it Car of the Year 2009 etc...

It had about the best PR launch possible, yet failed to make any real impact with real customers.

[10 Pence Short]

Scuffers said:

launched mid 2009....

At the time, all the reviews were glowing, (even Clarkson liked it), Autocar awarded it Britain's Best Driver's Car 2009, Evo gave it Car of the Year 2009 etc...

It had about the best PR launch possible, yet failed to make any real impact with real customers.

And there's the rub. No ground level support, no desire from the buying public, no reputation for quality at the price point and no room in the market place.

People with £45k+ to spend rarely want to do it on a product with no reputation or desirability, when there's so much choice already in marketplace from established competition.

I'm just trying to think of a success story in recent times, who is at such a low volume and looking to expand into a much larger one with such a large range in such a period of time.

It's a damned shame, but that doesn't change the reality.

[otolith]

8vFTW said:

Builder of under powered poncy bath tubs in not a viable business shocker.

[8vFTW]

otolith said:

8vFTW said:

Builder of under powered poncy bath tubs in not a viable business shocker.

Call it what you want, but the fact remains Lotus will never be a world wide success while pumping out cars that are just too small for other markets. They built a bigger car, but guess what, it was under powered.

[Dave Hedgehog]

kambites said:

Scuffers said:

Problem is, whichever way you look at it, you can always level that argument against Lotus.

right or wrong this may be, it would be far better for Lotus if for once in their lives, they could actually put an engine in from day one that EXCEEDED the expectations of the potential customers instead of having to use the tired old expression 'but it will have them in the corners'

look at the history, the Esprit for example, took 21 years to get a V8 in it (1975 to 1996 - by which time it was too late), the Evora launched with a 280Hp V6 (when the supercharged option was already available to them). etc etc.

They could do with screwing them together right from day-one, too. Using your customers as a significant part of your testing programme is not a way to endear yourself to them.

worked well for TVR

oh wait ..

[kambites]

8vFTW said:

Call it what you want, but the fact remains Lotus will never be a world wide success while pumping out cars that are just too small for other markets. They built a bigger car, but guess what, it was under powered.

I'm interested in this. I have no axe to grind either way - the Evora isn't my kind of car at all and I have no particular affiliation to Lotus as a company... do you actually know anyone who's driven one who said it felt under-powered? I only know a few people who've driven them and they've been overwhelmingly positive about how it drives (except for the gear linkage). None have complained that it's under-powered; just that it feels poorly designed and built.

Maybe that's unfair because all the potential customers who care about performance number never even bothered to drive it? I think the one think that Lotus have got to learn is that you can't sell a car predominantly on how it drives. It doesn't matter how much the media rave about a sports car's handling, it wont sell in great numbers unless it has the image and badge kudos to match.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 17th January 16:42

[Scuffers]

kambites said:

Maybe that's unfair because all the potential customers who care about performance number never even bothered to drive it? I think the one think that Lotus have got to learn is that you can't sell a car predominantly on how it drives. It doesn't matter how much the media rave about a sports car's handling, it wont sell in great numbers unless it has the image and badge kudos to match.

don't think that's a bad summary really...

people buy cars these days as they do white goods, it's all about style, stats, and price.

ie. people buy cars on top trump numbers, power/0-60/0-100/top speed, and whist a Lotus might be the best handling car on the planet, that does not feature in top trumps.

only slight side to this is stuff like the top gear power board, crude as it is, if you get a car to the top of that board, it will help no end (look at Atom for example).

[otolith]

8vFTW said:

otolith said:

8vFTW said:

Builder of under powered poncy bath tubs in not a viable business shocker.

Call it what you want, but the fact remains Lotus will never be a world wide success while pumping out cars that are just too small for other markets. They built a bigger car, but guess what, it was under powered.

Smallness is a virtue in a sports car - how big do you want a two seater to be?

What did you buy instead when the Evora wasn't powerful enough for you?

[8vFTW]

otolith said:

8vFTW said:

otolith said:

8vFTW said:

Builder of under powered poncy bath tubs in not a viable business shocker.

Call it what you want, but the fact remains Lotus will never be a world wide success while pumping out cars that are just too small for other markets. They built a bigger car, but guess what, it was under powered.

Smallness is a virtue in a sports car - how big do you want a two seater to be?

What did you buy instead when the Evora wasn't powerful enough for you?

Of course a sports car will be small but the Elise and the Exige were too small for even a 98%ile British person let alone a 98%ile Dutch male. It's interesting how most of the competitors manage to package their sports cars in a way that allows taller, or more generously proportioned (read: americans) fit in the cars with little embarrassment involved every time you get in or out.

Don't blame me that bigger markets than our own demand higher figures than a Evora can muster. Blame Lotus. Pretty little British roller skates don't sell well over seas, with the odd exception, just accept it because it is a fact and the longer Lotus cling to this type of car the less chance of I see them still being around in 20 years time when I'll be due a mid life.

[harryowl]

8vFTW said:

Of course a sports car will be small but the Elise and the Exige were too small for even a 98%ile British person let alone a 98%ile Dutch male.

bks

[dickieandjulie]

MX7 said:

Camry_Man said:

MX7 said:

So does that mean that Lotus don't have a dealer within the M25, but have a shop where you can buy all the Lotus tat that you could want?

While tat can be profitable, I can't think of another car manufacturer who owns a shop exclusively for tat.

here you go

I was thinking more of a high street shop than a theme park, but fair enough.

jazzyjeff said:

What's happened to B&C?

According to Lotus, they are a Service Center, not a Dealer.

http://www.lotuscars.com/en/dealer-locator

Quite a few it seems!! Tat galore:

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Dealers/Pages/Deale...

[Monkey boy 1]

The problem Lotus have on hese is that They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. Many-a-time I've trawled through the Dross of the PH forum and there are your usual Lotus Haters. with the usual comments of "Make a Sports car which weighs as much as a flea, has the power of the Sarturn Rocket and can corner like a Scalextric car while having a selling price of less than a Tenner". That just doesn't exist.
To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.