RE: Lotus parent company sold
Discussion
dickieandjulie said:
I'm lost. I say that I can't think of a company that has a shop exclusively for tat, and then people start coming out with theme parks and Ferrari dealers. Monkey boy 1 said:
The problem Lotus have on hese is that They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. Many-a-time I've trawled through the Dross of the PH forum and there are your usual Lotus Haters. with the usual comments of "Make a Sports car which weighs as much as a flea, has the power of the Sarturn Rocket and can corner like a Scalextric car while having a selling price of less than a Tenner". That just doesn't exist.
To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
While you always get people with unrealistic expectations lotus have not done themselves many favours over the past 15 yearsTo make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
The Elise has developed rather oddly, in sports car terms with models becoming ever heavier (Normal) and ever slower and less powerful (Not Normal)
The Base Elise has gone backwards and considering it was like the only car for sale for a while goes some way to explaining those poor sales, no one wants to spend 30k on a slow sports car
15 years ago a Base Elise had 118hp and a 0 - 60 time of 6 seconds or so
A base boxter had 205hp and a similar performance
Today a base elise has 135hp the same 0 - 60 time and the same top speed more or less
A base Boxter has 260 odd hp and a comfortable sub 6 sec time and significantly improved top speed
This never needed to happen, Lotus could have gone FI on the 1.6, given it 160/170hp, which would have seen it offer good performance relative to peers, or at the very least used the 1.8 litre yota engine putting out around 150hp, not downsize to a puny 1.6 with even less torque than the K series of 15+ years ago which also had to lug around a much lighter car
This is just one example of Lotus crazy engine policy, were they just fling something in and it's not always down to "we could not get/do anything more", when in reality as they have shown with the S/C cars, they can actually do something with a standard powerplant when they put there minds to it, for 30k a weedy N/A 1.6 was a always going to be a massive joke and so it has proved, i said at the time this was a terrible move for the base car and so it has proved
Scuffers said:
don't think that's a bad summary really...
people buy cars these days as they do white goods, it's all about style, stats, and price.
The reason I don't agree with the idea that the Evora is particularly at fault is that I think you're right that people buy cars like they buy white goods.people buy cars these days as they do white goods, it's all about style, stats, and price.
Studies consistently show that shoppers have very little loyalty - they shop at the supermarket nearest to them rather than their preferred brand, which is why Tescos are attempting to put a store on every street in Britain.
In the case of Lotus, the very sparse dealer network is a problem. In Cambridge I can buy a Porsche, but have to drive for at least an hour to be able to buy a Lotus. A two hour round trip for a service doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. So which car am I likely to buy, and which car an I going to think is a breeze to service?
Monkey boy 1 said:
The problem Lotus have on hese is that They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. Many-a-time I've trawled through the Dross of the PH forum and there are your usual Lotus Haters. with the usual comments of "Make a Sports car which weighs as much as a flea, has the power of the Sarturn Rocket and can corner like a Scalextric car while having a selling price of less than a Tenner". That just doesn't exist.
To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
instead of getting all pissed at people posting stuff, you/Lotus need a good hard look in the mirror.To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
Since the Elise was launched, what exactly have Lotus come out with?
first they went willy-waving with Autocar - the result, the 340r that cost everybody a packet
then they flirted with motorsport - Autobytel - had every chance of making it big, running with the right package (BTCC), the right looking car, but then shoot themselves int he foot with half backed engineering of the cars leading to it's premature demise (and really make them the laughing stock in Motorsport circles to boot).
then we had god knows how many abandoned projects that pissed yet more money up the wall.
finally, we get a new car, and it's the Europa, and it's actually not a bad car (once the ECU issues were resolved), only to be pitched at way too much money into the wrong market - result, feck all sold and it was canned.
Then, some 12 years after the Elise, we get the Evora, and once again, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory by marketing demanding it as a 2+2 and giving it way too high a price tag.
what have I missed?
by contrast, look at Caterham, a knat's cock sized company that manages to make a decent profit from low volume hand made cars, manages to run several prosperous race series, and has still managed not to p
s off it's entire previous customer base.(could easily have used Ginetta as an example too).
M250 died because they didn't have an engine.
Renault gave them the V6 from the Laguna and said "Make this engine produce 250hp when we put it into the Clio V6, you can have it for your rather tasty M250."
Alledgedly, Lotus couldn't do the job, Renault told Lotus to stuff it, and the Clio V6 launched with 220ish HP. Then Renault went to TWR, who promptly wound the required 250hp out of the engine and it launched in the Mk2 version.
Renault gave them the V6 from the Laguna and said "Make this engine produce 250hp when we put it into the Clio V6, you can have it for your rather tasty M250."
Alledgedly, Lotus couldn't do the job, Renault told Lotus to stuff it, and the Clio V6 launched with 220ish HP. Then Renault went to TWR, who promptly wound the required 250hp out of the engine and it launched in the Mk2 version.
Shame that the Evora wasn't introduced with the supercharged engine - it is one hell of a car with it. Evora (as Europa was) is very poorly marketed and I get the impression that Danny and his team of whizz kids don't really support it, as it's not their child. I don't hold my breath for the next Lotus generation, if and when they appear.
What Lotus need is a no frills, 650kg stripped down car with 250 bhp - they would sell them in the 1000's - but the current management is not capable of delivering this. There is a market for such a car.
What Lotus need is a no frills, 650kg stripped down car with 250 bhp - they would sell them in the 1000's - but the current management is not capable of delivering this. There is a market for such a car.
Monkey boy 1 said:
The problem Lotus have on hese is that They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. Many-a-time I've trawled through the Dross of the PH forum and there are your usual Lotus Haters. with the usual comments of "Make a Sports car which weighs as much as a flea, has the power of the Sarturn Rocket and can corner like a Scalextric car while having a selling price of less than a Tenner". That just doesn't exist.
To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
Totally agree. Wish people would stop dissing one of the last remaining GB motor manufacturers. I sometimes, well often, think people would love Lotus to go bust the way of MG, TVR etc. I would much rather buy British and secure British jobs in manufacturing and engineering than hand a years salary straight over to Audi, BMW, VW, Mercedes or any other foreign manufacturer. Why do people want to see and revel in GB industries going under? Lotus are a fantastic company who, for me produce very desirable cars then genuinely appeal to people and turn heads like a sports car or supercar should. With a Lotus kids, women and grown men still turn and stare, cars pull alongside on the motorway just for a look to see who is driving and other motorists are more courteous than they are to other drivers, giving way at junctions, flashing you out etc, just for a look at the car.To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
1981linley said:
Totally agree. Wish people would stop dissing one of the last remaining GB motor manufacturers. I sometimes, well often, think people would love Lotus to go bust the way of MG, TVR etc. I would much rather buy British and secure British jobs in manufacturing and engineering than hand a years salary straight over to Audi, BMW, VW, Mercedes or any other foreign manufacturer. Why do people want to see and revel in GB industries going under? Lotus are a fantastic company who, for me produce very desirable cars then genuinely appeal to people and turn heads like a sports car or supercar should. With a Lotus kids, women and grown men still turn and stare, cars pull alongside on the motorway just for a look to see who is driving and other motorists are more courteous than they are to other drivers, giving way at junctions, flashing you out etc, just for a look at the car.
sorry, that's just sentimental bull.it's nothing to do with 'dissing' them cause they are small and British (well Malaysian), and everything to do with inept management, horrific build quality, cavalier attitude towards dealers/customers etc etc...
people are not going to buy £50K+ cars on the basis that Lotus might be British, the product and company have to be right.
1981linley said:
Totally agree. Wish people would stop dissing one of the last remaining GB motor manufacturers. I sometimes, well often, think people would love Lotus to go bust the way of MG, TVR etc. I would much rather buy British and secure British jobs in manufacturing and engineering than hand a years salary straight over to Audi, BMW, VW, Mercedes or any other foreign manufacturer. Why do people want to see and revel in GB industries going under? Lotus are a fantastic company who, for me produce very desirable cars then genuinely appeal to people and turn heads like a sports car or supercar should. With a Lotus kids, women and grown men still turn and stare, cars pull alongside on the motorway just for a look to see who is driving and other motorists are more courteous than they are to other drivers, giving way at junctions, flashing you out etc, just for a look at the car.
I really don't think anyone wants to see Lotus go bust, far from it. There's a strong feeling of frustration regarding the marque amongst enthusiasts. No one doubts the engineering capabilities of the company and what they could achieve, but since the birth of the Elise as a company they appear to be floundering. The current direction they're going in is doing little to help - it seems far removed from what made Lotus great.I dare say that producing light weight, low cost sports cars is more difficult now than it ever has been, but companies like Caterham and Ginetta still manage it so it's not impossible. I don't think anyone would object to Lotus developing more expensive cars in the range to compete with Porsche, so long as they didn't drop the more focussed and more accessible models in the process.
As it stands, we have a situation whereby those enthusiasts, the ones that really are loyal and have kept Lotus going in tough times are being given short shrift, told they're no longer a suitable market and being passed over for the glamour, glitz and money of an entirely new buyer with no loyalty to the marque at all. It's a kick in the teeth and a case of some really poor forethought on the part of Lotus management, because those enthusiasts are vocal, and will kick up a fuss.
It's akin to your partner coming into some inheritance money and deciding to leave for someone wealthier as you're no longer "her type". You're not going to be inclined to pat her on the back and say "well good for you, I really hope it all works out".
In their efforts to appeal to the fashion conscious, fickle, monied customers, their marketing and PR has, quite frankly been appalling, and frankly downright tacky to anybody with their feet still on the ground. The Desperate Housewives attempt at product placement was laughable in its lack of subtlety. Everything about Swizz Beatz being a paid up member of the Lotus team shouts style over substance - something that Lotus has never been about before. The F1 naming rights court saga was cringe worthy. Promises of lots of new high end cars to rival Porsche and Ferrari in a grand plan from a loss making company hints at all those new supercar manufacturers with a couple of CG images and a PR leaflet.
There's been no apparent attempt to take their existing customers along with them on this 5 year plan, and that could end up hurting them badly if the new cars don't sell as well as they hoped. To my mind it just seems like the idea of one ex Ferrari employee with a grand dream, and I recall another character who also "had a dream":
1981linley said:
Monkey boy 1 said:
The problem Lotus have on hese is that They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. Many-a-time I've trawled through the Dross of the PH forum and there are your usual Lotus Haters. with the usual comments of "Make a Sports car which weighs as much as a flea, has the power of the Sarturn Rocket and can corner like a Scalextric car while having a selling price of less than a Tenner". That just doesn't exist.
To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
Totally agree. Wish people would stop dissing one of the last remaining GB motor manufacturers. I sometimes, well often, think people would love Lotus to go bust the way of MG, TVR etc. I would much rather buy British and secure British jobs in manufacturing and engineering than hand a years salary straight over to Audi, BMW, VW, Mercedes or any other foreign manufacturer. Why do people want to see and revel in GB industries going under? Lotus are a fantastic company who, for me produce very desirable cars then genuinely appeal to people and turn heads like a sports car or supercar should. With a Lotus kids, women and grown men still turn and stare, cars pull alongside on the motorway just for a look to see who is driving and other motorists are more courteous than they are to other drivers, giving way at junctions, flashing you out etc, just for a look at the car.To make a hand built car costs just as much, if not more that a massed produced car. parts are more expensive from suppliers due to the smaller quantities. They try and make a higher end market car so there is a maginally better profit margin but get slated because of price.
I really do laugh at some of the "Regular" posters on here who think they know better. How many of them are actually in the Motor manufacturing industry ? Before any of you have a go, yes I do work for them. I get as frustrated as the rest of passionate owners at times about the company, but there's nothing I ca do to change things.
There's a lot of very good stuff going on behind the scenes that most people don't know about. All you tend to see is the Cars side Flag flying and product placement communications. Even the Swiss Beatz thing, if you really looked at it was for the Federal market where the guy is better known.
Don't shoot Lotus down too much, they are a bigger player in the market than you think.
The new bods have come in and hey presto they are giving work to their friends in italy, Germany etc. The new engine is an old HWA DTM engine, so much for using in house knowledge! The so called big names all over EVO magazine are not Lotus Engineering People (not that you should consider that to be a bad thing). The people Dany has employed would rather be working in Italy or Germany, but they work in Norfolk (and live in London, Nice, Paris etc) for the money, and are helping themselves (and their friends!) Another reason they left Porsche, Ferrari, AMG... When you get near the top it is very hard to get that next big promotion... be featured in magazines etc... that is what Bahr has offered them!
Scuffers said:
instead of getting all pissed at people posting stuff, you/Lotus need a good hard look in the mirror.
Did I say I was pissed at people ? No, I said I had to laugh at some of the "Regular" posters
Since the Elise was launched, what exactly have Lotus come out with?
first they went willy-waving with Autocar - the result, the 340r that cost everybody a packet I think you'll find every one was sold
then they flirted with motorsport - Autobytel - had every chance of making it big, running with the right package (BTCC), the right looking car, but then shoot themselves int he foot with half backed engineering of the cars leading to it's premature demise (and really make them the laughing stock in Motorsport circles to boot).
then we had god knows how many abandoned projects that pissed yet more money up the wall. [b] Exactly how many? I can think of the M250 not many more(/b]
finally, we get a new car, and it's the Europa, and it's actually not a bad car (once the ECU issues were resolved), only to be pitched at way too much money into the wrong market - result, feck all sold and it was canned.
I think you'll find was originally destined be produced as a Proton, not a Lotus.
Then, some 12 years after the Elise, we get the Evora, and once again, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory by marketing demanding it as a 2+2 and giving it way too high a price tag.
Probably something to do with the old style management who are no longer at Hethel
what have I missed?
by contrast, look at Caterham, a Gnat's cock sized company that manages to make a decent profit from low volume hand made cars, manages to run several prosperous race series, and has still managed not to ps off it's entire previous customer base.
Totally different type of customer base,You can buy these as a kit and build yourself. Would you want to use a Caterham as an every day car or more to the point want to be involved in an accident with a standard road car? i know I certainly wouldn't
(could easily have used Ginetta as an example too).
You really do have a downer on Lotus, I can't remember reading a post from you where you actually praised the company. Did I say I was pissed at people ? No, I said I had to laugh at some of the "Regular" posters
Since the Elise was launched, what exactly have Lotus come out with?
first they went willy-waving with Autocar - the result, the 340r that cost everybody a packet I think you'll find every one was sold
then they flirted with motorsport - Autobytel - had every chance of making it big, running with the right package (BTCC), the right looking car, but then shoot themselves int he foot with half backed engineering of the cars leading to it's premature demise (and really make them the laughing stock in Motorsport circles to boot).
then we had god knows how many abandoned projects that pissed yet more money up the wall. [b] Exactly how many? I can think of the M250 not many more(/b]
finally, we get a new car, and it's the Europa, and it's actually not a bad car (once the ECU issues were resolved), only to be pitched at way too much money into the wrong market - result, feck all sold and it was canned.
I think you'll find was originally destined be produced as a Proton, not a Lotus.
Then, some 12 years after the Elise, we get the Evora, and once again, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory by marketing demanding it as a 2+2 and giving it way too high a price tag.
Probably something to do with the old style management who are no longer at Hethel
what have I missed?
by contrast, look at Caterham, a Gnat's cock sized company that manages to make a decent profit from low volume hand made cars, manages to run several prosperous race series, and has still managed not to p
s off it's entire previous customer base. Totally different type of customer base,You can buy these as a kit and build yourself. Would you want to use a Caterham as an every day car or more to the point want to be involved in an accident with a standard road car? i know I certainly wouldn't
(could easily have used Ginetta as an example too).
In reply to Peter450
The main difference between the evolution of the Elise and the evolution of the Boxter is that Porsche produce their own engines so can upgrade / uprate easily. Very few other rear engined cars on the market which they could borrow an engine from so do their own plus they are an immensely wealthy company and are the benchmark for many manufacturers (not just Lotus)to aspire to.
Lotus rely on other manufacturers engines and have done for almost their entire history, Very few mass produced mid engined car manufacturers available so have to adapt a front engined vehicles set up to suit The 1.8l 2ZZ Yota engine went out of production and their hand was almost forced into using the 1.6 lump.
Monkey boy 1 said:
Scuffers said:
instead of getting all pissed at people posting stuff, you/Lotus need a good hard look in the mirror.
Did I say I was pissed at people ? No, I said I had to laugh at some of the "Regular" posters
Since the Elise was launched, what exactly have Lotus come out with?
first they went willy-waving with Autocar - the result, the 340r that cost everybody a packet I think you'll find every one was sold
then they flirted with motorsport - Autobytel - had every chance of making it big, running with the right package (BTCC), the right looking car, but then shoot themselves int he foot with half backed engineering of the cars leading to it's premature demise (and really make them the laughing stock in Motorsport circles to boot).
then we had god knows how many abandoned projects that pissed yet more money up the wall. [b] Exactly how many? I can think of the M250 not many more(/b]
finally, we get a new car, and it's the Europa, and it's actually not a bad car (once the ECU issues were resolved), only to be pitched at way too much money into the wrong market - result, feck all sold and it was canned.
I think you'll find was originally destined be produced as a Proton, not a Lotus.
Then, some 12 years after the Elise, we get the Evora, and once again, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory by marketing demanding it as a 2+2 and giving it way too high a price tag.
Probably something to do with the old style management who are no longer at Hethel
what have I missed?
by contrast, look at Caterham, a Gnat's cock sized company that manages to make a decent profit from low volume hand made cars, manages to run several prosperous race series, and has still managed not to ps off it's entire previous customer base.
Totally different type of customer base,You can buy these as a kit and build yourself. Would you want to use a Caterham as an every day car or more to the point want to be involved in an accident with a standard road car? i know I certainly wouldn't
(could easily have used Ginetta as an example too).
You really do have a downer on Lotus, I can't remember reading a post from you where you actually praised the company. Did I say I was pissed at people ? No, I said I had to laugh at some of the "Regular" posters
Since the Elise was launched, what exactly have Lotus come out with?
first they went willy-waving with Autocar - the result, the 340r that cost everybody a packet I think you'll find every one was sold
then they flirted with motorsport - Autobytel - had every chance of making it big, running with the right package (BTCC), the right looking car, but then shoot themselves int he foot with half backed engineering of the cars leading to it's premature demise (and really make them the laughing stock in Motorsport circles to boot).
then we had god knows how many abandoned projects that pissed yet more money up the wall. [b] Exactly how many? I can think of the M250 not many more(/b]
finally, we get a new car, and it's the Europa, and it's actually not a bad car (once the ECU issues were resolved), only to be pitched at way too much money into the wrong market - result, feck all sold and it was canned.
I think you'll find was originally destined be produced as a Proton, not a Lotus.
Then, some 12 years after the Elise, we get the Evora, and once again, defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory by marketing demanding it as a 2+2 and giving it way too high a price tag.
Probably something to do with the old style management who are no longer at Hethel
what have I missed?
by contrast, look at Caterham, a Gnat's cock sized company that manages to make a decent profit from low volume hand made cars, manages to run several prosperous race series, and has still managed not to p
s off it's entire previous customer base. Totally different type of customer base,You can buy these as a kit and build yourself. Would you want to use a Caterham as an every day car or more to the point want to be involved in an accident with a standard road car? i know I certainly wouldn't
(could easily have used Ginetta as an example too).
In reply to Peter450
The main difference between the evolution of the Elise and the evolution of the Boxter is that Porsche produce their own engines so can upgrade / uprate easily. Very few other rear engined cars on the market which they could borrow an engine from so do their own plus they are an immensely wealthy company and are the benchmark for many manufacturers (not just Lotus)to aspire to.
Lotus rely on other manufacturers engines and have done for almost their entire history, Very few mass produced mid engined car manufacturers available so have to adapt a front engined vehicles set up to suit The 1.8l 2ZZ Yota engine went out of production and their hand was almost forced into using the 1.6 lump.
Some good stuff coming out of Hethel at the moment: Elise S, Exige V6, Evora S..... I do agree with Peter on the 1.6 Elise though - would have been better to have supercharged it but both the Elise S (finally!) and new Exige look great value.
Erm NuLotus are aiming at 7k units/year..
McLaren and Ferrari similar numbers/annum produce their own engines - this is the market Lotus are shooting at..
You can't just bolt someone else's engine in this market (Lambo excepted)
And where are the bodyshells coming from??
I really wish Lotus well but with the Bahar circus in town, he's sent in the clowns now where is the main act?
McLaren and Ferrari similar numbers/annum produce their own engines - this is the market Lotus are shooting at..
You can't just bolt someone else's engine in this market (Lambo excepted)
And where are the bodyshells coming from??
I really wish Lotus well but with the Bahar circus in town, he's sent in the clowns now where is the main act?
MX7 said:
dickieandjulie said:
I'm lost. I say that I can't think of a company that has a shop exclusively for tat, and then people start coming out with theme parks and Ferrari dealers. Exclusively for tat.
Roy Slater said "The new engine is an old HWA DTM engine, so much for using in house knowledge", this is absolutely amazing news, so not even all the "meeting targets", for the "clean sheet design" is true, all just PR drivel spun into easy copy for motoring journalists . Did anyone else know this engine wasn't a clean sheet in-house Lotus design ?
As for re-numeration packages for these highly placed overseas workers, your comments have confirmed my own conclusions.
The plot thickens !
As for re-numeration packages for these highly placed overseas workers, your comments have confirmed my own conclusions.
The plot thickens !
donna180 said:
Lotus does seem to get a hard time on here
It's only because people care about Lotus, and want to see them succeed. At the moment there's little evidence that they are moving in the right direction.Eliser said:
You can't just bolt someone else's engine in this market (Lambo excepted)
I'd say that you can't do anything but bolt in someone else's engine.Monkey boy 1 said:
The main difference between the evolution of the Elise and the evolution of the Boxter is that Porsche produce their own engines so can upgrade / uprate easily. Very few other rear engined cars on the market which they could borrow an engine from so do their own plus they are an immensely wealthy company and are the benchmark for many manufacturers (not just Lotus)to aspire to.
Lotus rely on other manufacturers engines and have done for almost their entire history, Very few mass produced mid engined car manufacturers available so have to adapt a front engined vehicles set up to suit The 1.8l 2ZZ Yota engine went out of production and their hand was almost forced into using the 1.6 lump.
there is a 1.8 litre version of the 1.6, also a 2 litre i think, the 2ZZ has no replacement thats true, but the 2ZZ was never a base modelLotus rely on other manufacturers engines and have done for almost their entire history, Very few mass produced mid engined car manufacturers available so have to adapt a front engined vehicles set up to suit The 1.8l 2ZZ Yota engine went out of production and their hand was almost forced into using the 1.6 lump.
The 1.8 does 150hp near enough in N/A form, i think it's the engine there using in the new S/C 1.8, but suercharged
Since they can S/C this 1.8 in the new S/C, i dont see why they could not do the same to the 1.6, and have a all FI lineup or at the very least use the bigger 1.8/2 litre in the car, so it at least moves the game on from the old 135hp 1.8 yota, which itself gave almost zero improvement over the 1.8 S2 K base car which itself gave almost zero improvement over the 1.8 series S1 K base car, i see a pattern emerging here, it's not a pretty one
Lotus are more than capable of sourcing bigger engines or using FI, they dont because they think a slow 130hp 1.6 N/A at 28k will sell better than the same car at 30k with a supercharger and 170hp, considering Lotus sell on performance, and not build quality, cheapness or easy day to day living i feel that is a mistake, why go to all the compromises to own a slow lotus, the handling might be nice, but thats not a easy sell is it, nice handling, slow performance and 28k, as opposed to nice handling, fast and 31k, people have a certain performance expectation from a lotus
Every Lotus that has launched with performance below those expectations has barely sold, Elan S2 N/A, Stevens Esprit N/A, they just did not deliver on peoples expectations minimum expectations of the brand, and the base car at present is dangerously close to that teritory, it's to slow, at this rate of prgression the MX5 will be both faster and cheaper in the not to distant future
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