RE: Lotus parent company sold
Discussion
Tuna said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Just don't let Mike "Evora" Kimberley come back under any circumstances! What was he thinking.
You mean the guy who finally managed to get Lotus to produce a genuinely new product, and who put the entire VVA programme in place that is the basis of the new Esprit?What was he thinking? The first Lotus in a while that could actually be sold worldwide to more than a specialist market, and a platform designed for an entire range of cars that gets nothing but praise?
The nastiness in here really knows no bounds.
his only real failing was listening to the marketing moron that said a 2+2 was the way forward, and pitching it at £60K.
Scuffers said:
yup, agree with that...
his only real failing was listening to the marketing moron that said a 2+2 was the way forward, and pitching it at £60K.
Absobloodylutely. There's nothing wrong with the Evora that a lower price and a rethink of the back seats wouldn't have sorted. The marketing boys fhis only real failing was listening to the marketing moron that said a 2+2 was the way forward, and pitching it at £60K.
ked that one up, not the designer!juansolo said:
Scuffers said:
yup, agree with that...
his only real failing was listening to the marketing moron that said a 2+2 was the way forward, and pitching it at £60K.
Absobloodylutely. There's nothing wrong with the Evora that a lower price and a rethink of the back seats wouldn't have sorted. The marketing boys fhis only real failing was listening to the marketing moron that said a 2+2 was the way forward, and pitching it at £60K.
ked that one up, not the designer!I think there are plenty of people in my camp but where Lotus marketing people seemed to get it wrong is thinking that people can actually drive these cars the way they are intended. Which is a great shame for the likes of us on PH. Reality is if you don't load the car up through a corner and drive it properly, why would you choose one after a burble out of a showroom on a 10 minute test drive. Porsche have a similar problem to overcome as there are a hell of a lot of them that can't drive worth toffee (and some that can of course) but they get away with that because of the brand strength, motorsport association etc etc. This is what Lotus are working on now. SO you could say the Evora was the right car, just at the wrong time (and you don't need the rear seats if they offend that much, you can even save some ££££ not specifying them.
zebedee said:
depends on the buyer. For me, those back seats and that handling don't come together on another car and for the looks of it and the feel of it and the go of it, I would definitely get one if I had 60k to spend. I'm not sure what rival product would be in contemplation, love the XK, but even more expensive, more cash to run and doesn't have the handling. M3 cheaper but a saloon derivative won't do it for me.
I think there are plenty of people in my camp but where Lotus marketing people seemed to get it wrong is thinking that people can actually drive these cars the way they are intended. Which is a great shame for the likes of us on PH. Reality is if you don't load the car up through a corner and drive it properly, why would you choose one after a burble out of a showroom on a 10 minute test drive. Porsche have a similar problem to overcome as there are a hell of a lot of them that can't drive worth toffee (and some that can of course) but they get away with that because of the brand strength, motorsport association etc etc. This is what Lotus are working on now. SO you could say the Evora was the right car, just at the wrong time (and you don't need the rear seats if they offend that much, you can even save some ££££ not specifying them.
problem here is that if your going to start looking at what other cars are about for £60K, it's a very long list with some very serious cars in it.I think there are plenty of people in my camp but where Lotus marketing people seemed to get it wrong is thinking that people can actually drive these cars the way they are intended. Which is a great shame for the likes of us on PH. Reality is if you don't load the car up through a corner and drive it properly, why would you choose one after a burble out of a showroom on a 10 minute test drive. Porsche have a similar problem to overcome as there are a hell of a lot of them that can't drive worth toffee (and some that can of course) but they get away with that because of the brand strength, motorsport association etc etc. This is what Lotus are working on now. SO you could say the Evora was the right car, just at the wrong time (and you don't need the rear seats if they offend that much, you can even save some ££££ not specifying them.
Yes, they might not have the pin-sharp handling of a Lotus, but as you quite rightly point out, who cares? you can't exploit that on the road anyway, and being realistic, it's not the sort of car you buy to take on track-days.
if your going to compare it to cars in the coupe market, then it's going to loose every time.
it comes back to what car is the Evora and who is it aimed at?
Scuffers said:
problem here is that if your going to start looking at what other cars are about for £60K, it's a very long list with some very serious cars in it.
Yes, they might not have the pin-sharp handling of a Lotus, but as you quite rightly point out, who cares? you can't exploit that on the road anyway, and being realistic, it's not the sort of car you buy to take on track-days.
if your going to compare it to cars in the coupe market, then it's going to loose every time.
it comes back to what car is the Evora and who is it aimed at?
I agree with everything you say other than it will lose to coupes. RS5, 6 series? No thanks. Scuffers I appreciate we have these comments often on the subject of the Evora but it keeps on rearing its head in every Lotus topic and I do feel, as someone who would buy one if I had the readies, that a balanced viewpoint is needed. I know I won't convert anyonw but would just say give one a try if you haven't, hell, there are plenty of demonstrators about...!Yes, they might not have the pin-sharp handling of a Lotus, but as you quite rightly point out, who cares? you can't exploit that on the road anyway, and being realistic, it's not the sort of car you buy to take on track-days.
if your going to compare it to cars in the coupe market, then it's going to loose every time.
it comes back to what car is the Evora and who is it aimed at?
The Evora is a great handling, reasonable to run, dramatically styled 2+2 mid-engined sports car which puts a grin on your face. If people realised that is what it is, they would sell more, especially to people like me with little kids. I think there are more people like me out there, but they just don't know about the Evora, you can't blame the car for that. You can perhaps blame the marketing, because they may have assumed the brilliant press about how great it was would do the business, but as I said before, this won't bother 90% of buyers because they want a Porsche newer than the next door neighbours one or a model up, but they will never drive it as intended anyway. That is what is sad, the ability of the Evora is not.
zebedee said:
I agree with everything you say other than it will lose to coupes. RS5, 6 series? No thanks. Scuffers I appreciate we have these comments often on the subject of the Evora but it keeps on rearing its head in every Lotus topic and I do feel, as someone who would buy one if I had the readies, that a balanced viewpoint is needed. I know I won't convert anyonw but would just say give one a try if you haven't, hell, there are plenty of demonstrators about...!
The Evora is a great handling, reasonable to run, dramatically styled 2+2 mid-engined sports car which puts a grin on your face. If people realised that is what it is, they would sell more, especially to people like me with little kids. I think there are more people like me out there, but they just don't know about the Evora, you can't blame the car for that. You can perhaps blame the marketing, because they may have assumed the brilliant press about how great it was would do the business, but as I said before, this won't bother 90% of buyers because they want a Porsche newer than the next door neighbours one or a model up, but they will never drive it as intended anyway. That is what is sad, the ability of the Evora is not.
bit hard to to be biased here, but consider that I own an S5, and I cannot imagine having an Evora in it's place.The Evora is a great handling, reasonable to run, dramatically styled 2+2 mid-engined sports car which puts a grin on your face. If people realised that is what it is, they would sell more, especially to people like me with little kids. I think there are more people like me out there, but they just don't know about the Evora, you can't blame the car for that. You can perhaps blame the marketing, because they may have assumed the brilliant press about how great it was would do the business, but as I said before, this won't bother 90% of buyers because they want a Porsche newer than the next door neighbours one or a model up, but they will never drive it as intended anyway. That is what is sad, the ability of the Evora is not.
As I said, my issue is who is the car aimed at?
for me, it's not a sports car, it's not really a GT car, what is it?
it's only trump card is it's handling, and honestly, outside of the race track, that's not an advantage to 99% of people, yes, I am sure I could lap Donington faster in the Evora than I could in the S5, XJR, M6, etc. but I am not buying a car to take round race ccts, if I was, I would by a Caterham/Elise/Radical/etc.
Back in the real world for 99.9% of buyers, the others will basically muller it in terms of everyday use/performance/practicality/etc.
otolith said:
Hmmm. I have to say, I'd quite like an Evora, and would be drawn towards it rather than an A5 for the same sort of reasons I went for an Elise rather than a TT - would I be horribly disappointed if I drove one?
don't ask on here! Go and try one, you won't be disappointed.And it is a sports car, of course it is.
The Crack Fox said:
juansolo said:
Scuffers said:
yup, agree with that...
his only real failing was listening to the marketing moron that said a 2+2 was the way forward, and pitching it at £60K.
Absobloodylutely. There's nothing wrong with the Evora that a lower price and a rethink of the back seats wouldn't have sorted. The marketing boys fhis only real failing was listening to the marketing moron that said a 2+2 was the way forward, and pitching it at £60K.
ked that one up, not the designer!
I f*cking love the Evora. There. I've said it.
The Crack Fox said:
Utter nonsense. Evora rear seats are the perfect size. I'll explain... they're big enough to fool the missus in the showroom that as a 2+2 the Evora is a practical proposition, but (when you've actually bought the beauty) are too small to fit anyone in, meaning you don't have to share the driving pleasure with anyone else
I f*cking love the Evora. There. I've said it.
so why don't you have one instead of your BMW then?I f*cking love the Evora. There. I've said it.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Oh dear, sounds like you're a paid-up member of the St Michael fan club. Sadly his pet project was the Evora and it's just not worked in the marketplace. Hopefully there are better things to come.
IMO - it was the price that motoring press had their main gripe with and that directly puts off the buyers - why buy an Evora when you can buy a Porsche and have guaranteed 'cred'.If the base Evora was sub £45k it would IMO have been a much stronger proposition.
Ozzie Osmond said:
zebedee said:
Go and try one, you won't be disappointed.
And it is a sports car, of course it is.
All very true; it drives as nicely as a lotus should. The problems come when you try to assess the total package of performance, features, styling and price.And it is a sports car, of course it is.
This is my own opinion (and yes I am an Automotive Professional like my father...well not quite like him, I went a different route). For a start, can I say that the Evora was the right product at the right time for Lotus. With no new model for 8 years MJK developed and produced a car that has won innumerate awards and accolades, on a shoestring and in just 18 months! If anything the Evora was the start of the comeback for Lotus.
If you remember the car was priced at under £50k and the chassis was developed to house at least one and prob 2 more new models. The Esprit (circa £90k) and a new supercar (Circa £150k). This would give you a natural progression in models and appeal to the broadest client base, from £25k base Elise to £150k Supercar and everything in between).
Where the Evora has gone wrong is constant price hikes and lack of Marketing and support (which was all put into the "new vision" hence a lack of focus on current models). Plus uncertainties with dealer numbers being cut and lack of dealer support in countries such as the US.
Lets also not forget that MJK wiped the companies debts out and made a profit for the first time in 2008. The 5 year plan was in place and progressing well with many of the models you see now already planned and in progress before he retired due to ill health (for example, Supercharged Evora).
FYI my father has had no contact or discussions with the company and no longer represents them in any way...or has an opinion. I on the other hand do. I just want Lotus to survive and anyone who is not best for what is a true British institution, gone. One thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that a British Motor Industry without Lotus just doesn't bear thinking about.
If you remember the car was priced at under £50k and the chassis was developed to house at least one and prob 2 more new models. The Esprit (circa £90k) and a new supercar (Circa £150k). This would give you a natural progression in models and appeal to the broadest client base, from £25k base Elise to £150k Supercar and everything in between).
Where the Evora has gone wrong is constant price hikes and lack of Marketing and support (which was all put into the "new vision" hence a lack of focus on current models). Plus uncertainties with dealer numbers being cut and lack of dealer support in countries such as the US.
Lets also not forget that MJK wiped the companies debts out and made a profit for the first time in 2008. The 5 year plan was in place and progressing well with many of the models you see now already planned and in progress before he retired due to ill health (for example, Supercharged Evora).
FYI my father has had no contact or discussions with the company and no longer represents them in any way...or has an opinion. I on the other hand do. I just want Lotus to survive and anyone who is not best for what is a true British institution, gone. One thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that a British Motor Industry without Lotus just doesn't bear thinking about.
Edited by Kimbers34 on Wednesday 11th April 14:58
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