RE: PH Blog: M5 talks dirty
Discussion
Moral of this ongoing saga:
There is room in this market both very large very heavy 200mph cars that have some decent handling like the new M5, but there is a possibility to bring back the old school sports sedan that BMW showed us and which we loved for so many decades- with no complaint and only love. Its just a matter of how does such a sedan get redone for the next years? Obviously prototypes like MB's carbon boned sedan will make this possible. Heres to better days. j
There is room in this market both very large very heavy 200mph cars that have some decent handling like the new M5, but there is a possibility to bring back the old school sports sedan that BMW showed us and which we loved for so many decades- with no complaint and only love. Its just a matter of how does such a sedan get redone for the next years? Obviously prototypes like MB's carbon boned sedan will make this possible. Heres to better days. j
Edited by j123 on Sunday 22 January 22:17
oh, and for the record, i just checked the lengths between the E23 7 series and the F10 5 series. there is less than 4cm in it.....
people saying cars are getting massive (no doubt, they're getting bigger) but for it to take 33 years for the 5 series to catch up doesn't sound as bad as people make out.
people saying cars are getting massive (no doubt, they're getting bigger) but for it to take 33 years for the 5 series to catch up doesn't sound as bad as people make out.
E38Ross said:
People would moan of the current m3 had 2 cylinders less than the top of the range non M though, I reckon.
Agree with that. It is a shame because it restricts BMW thinking of what they can do and offer. The problem is, the M-car must have more power than the top-of-the-range non M-car and I assume, taking the M3 as an example, it would not be possible to get a 4-cyl. engine to produce more power than the turbo charged 6-cyl. engines BMW uses in the 335i and 335d.BMW even had the opportunity to go down this route when having to sell a special 4-cyl. model as the homologation car for the WTCC. What did we get? The E90 320is. The homologation rules are probably different these days to make it easier and cheaper for manufacturers to participate in the WTCC, but they could have used this opportunity to produced a M3 similar in concept as the E30 M3. However, I assume there simply isn't a world wide market for that sort of car anymore....
E38Ross said:
oh, and for the record, i just checked the lengths between the E23 7 series and the F10 5 series. there is less than 4cm in it.....
people saying cars are getting massive (no doubt, they're getting bigger) but for it to take 33 years for the 5 series to catch up doesn't sound as bad as people make out.
You may be right. What about width? And how many roads do you know have been widened in recent years.people saying cars are getting massive (no doubt, they're getting bigger) but for it to take 33 years for the 5 series to catch up doesn't sound as bad as people make out.
And how many car parking spots have increased in length to cope with the even longer 7 series?
masermartin said:
CliveM said:
Think of it the other way around.
Lots of people change the exhaust on their car to get an engine note that they prefer. Can you imagine the comments you'd get on a PH forum if you suggested that instead of changing the exhaust on a Ferrari 550, for example, you thought you'd go to an audio specialist to get some speakers wired up to replicate the sound?
+1Lots of people change the exhaust on their car to get an engine note that they prefer. Can you imagine the comments you'd get on a PH forum if you suggested that instead of changing the exhaust on a Ferrari 550, for example, you thought you'd go to an audio specialist to get some speakers wired up to replicate the sound?
The "sound" of a car is very much a part of the experience. Spending time and money tuning and shaping the pipes and baffles to get an evocative noise is an artform, almost, and can bring as much to a car's character as the styling. Where's the fun if only you can hear it?
Mermaid said:
E38Ross said:
oh, and for the record, i just checked the lengths between the E23 7 series and the F10 5 series. there is less than 4cm in it.....
people saying cars are getting massive (no doubt, they're getting bigger) but for it to take 33 years for the 5 series to catch up doesn't sound as bad as people make out.
You may be right. What about width? And how many roads do you know have been widened in recent years.people saying cars are getting massive (no doubt, they're getting bigger) but for it to take 33 years for the 5 series to catch up doesn't sound as bad as people make out.
And how many car parking spots have increased in length to cope with the even longer 7 series?
Munich said:
find a company that will switch off the sound system
Automobile Magazine said:
Here's something you'll be shocked to learn: when I unplugged the factory stereo amplifier, the engine's note inside the car changed considerably. It was all but inaudible over two grand, becoming more audible but distant as the revs increased
dfen5 said:
Was that supposed to be a review? Not sure, left me a bit cold? I used to read other reviews so I might be a bit biased? Rather than put my opinion on it straight and explain why, tell me I'm wrong?
BMW must be beside themselves with joy having reviews like that on their prestige GT.
As has already been said, no this is not a review. It was a blog on initial thoughts. Fuller review coming from Dan soon.BMW must be beside themselves with joy having reviews like that on their prestige GT.
Didn't really get my M3 till it was down to the last few mm of rear tread left with new ones ready to go on. Week’s worth of enjoying the m differential at unscary speeds showed what it could do above and beyond the limits of grip I'd usually use on the road. Guess the new M5 needs even more room to play before you tapped its full potential.
Mermaid said:
You may be right. What about width? And how many roads do you know have been widened in recent years.
And how many car parking spots have increased in length to cope with the even longer 7 series?
the F10 (again, 33 years later) is 6cm wider than the '77 7 series.And how many car parking spots have increased in length to cope with the even longer 7 series?
if you want a smaller car don't buy a 5 series/A6/E class, all manufacturers have smaller entry models now (e.g. 1 series) which they never used to have so is it that big of a deal? the 1 series coupe is all but the same length as the original 3, where the hatch back is the same size. it is, however, wider.
Crusoe said:
Didn't really get my M3 till it was down to the last few mm of rear tread left with new ones ready to go on. Week’s worth of enjoying the m differential at unscary speeds showed what it could do above and beyond the limits of grip I'd usually use on the road. Guess the new M5 needs even more room to play before you tapped its full potential.
The E39 M5 is a bit like that; you need more room than is available on a UK public road to really push it's buttons.Derestrictor said:
Let's not kid ourselves over the enthusiast (i.e. CSL type) comments versus those making commercial sense.
Even so, a pig headed aversion to such things (i.e. reality) is not, nor should it be that which informs the said enthusiast, in all his wondrous variety.
There's no doubt in my mind that the V10 was the last iteration of truly heroic ///Mness (of the sort where the guy who signed off the 'M diff' really wanted to be Herman Rarebell, drummer supreme of Germanic heavy rock) and not just because it avoided slushed changes.
It was a rare screamer and it knocked/knocks the alternatives into a cocked hat for sheer lunacy. It just did/does...
Although irretrievably biased, I'll never begin to understand the media's default ignorance of the B5 in the automatic, uber contemplations; perhaps it's mere homage to the standard mode of the supplier's triumvirate of unthinking, perennial AMG v RS v XF-R supply?
I think we have to draw certain lines in the sand across which transgression must surely be acknowledged; a place where progress is defined by technology but from what I can see, latterly amounts to a (dilutive) virtualisation of what we've already had.
Yes, this is luddism; yes, this is unrealistic but it is what the enthusiast should stick to, as a creed.
I can just about go with SMG but even then, must submit to the insistence of even that to the call of "impurity!" as it were, from the sidelines and those stick shifters of yore.
Besides, if we're less worried about the finesse of a flicked wrist or some variably effected, foot initiated clutch action, then at the day's end, Merc had the game sewn up anyway with its '65 AMG ware...
When me old mate and PH denizen, Dazren of Bristol & The West, has sporadically bemoaned the creeping abandonment of the 'old way' (manual) by Porsche, I've sometimes given his mourn minimal gravity by way of response - citing the Nissan GT-R -for example, in our joint analysis of the historically (road) indomitable (since 1995) Porsche Turbo. Yet today, in the cold light of i-Everything... his thoughts have assumed a vast weight and ominous providence.
And yes, this is after a small pootle in the Funf of Funfs.
Hail & Schnell.
Are you on magic mushrooms? Even so, a pig headed aversion to such things (i.e. reality) is not, nor should it be that which informs the said enthusiast, in all his wondrous variety.
There's no doubt in my mind that the V10 was the last iteration of truly heroic ///Mness (of the sort where the guy who signed off the 'M diff' really wanted to be Herman Rarebell, drummer supreme of Germanic heavy rock) and not just because it avoided slushed changes.
It was a rare screamer and it knocked/knocks the alternatives into a cocked hat for sheer lunacy. It just did/does...
Although irretrievably biased, I'll never begin to understand the media's default ignorance of the B5 in the automatic, uber contemplations; perhaps it's mere homage to the standard mode of the supplier's triumvirate of unthinking, perennial AMG v RS v XF-R supply?
I think we have to draw certain lines in the sand across which transgression must surely be acknowledged; a place where progress is defined by technology but from what I can see, latterly amounts to a (dilutive) virtualisation of what we've already had.
Yes, this is luddism; yes, this is unrealistic but it is what the enthusiast should stick to, as a creed.
I can just about go with SMG but even then, must submit to the insistence of even that to the call of "impurity!" as it were, from the sidelines and those stick shifters of yore.
Besides, if we're less worried about the finesse of a flicked wrist or some variably effected, foot initiated clutch action, then at the day's end, Merc had the game sewn up anyway with its '65 AMG ware...
When me old mate and PH denizen, Dazren of Bristol & The West, has sporadically bemoaned the creeping abandonment of the 'old way' (manual) by Porsche, I've sometimes given his mourn minimal gravity by way of response - citing the Nissan GT-R -for example, in our joint analysis of the historically (road) indomitable (since 1995) Porsche Turbo. Yet today, in the cold light of i-Everything... his thoughts have assumed a vast weight and ominous providence.
And yes, this is after a small pootle in the Funf of Funfs.
Hail & Schnell.
Salom said:
Are you on magic mushrooms?
Just fighting a fight cos I believe that I'm right.You know, you've got to fight for what you want, for all that you believe; it's right to fight for what we want, to live the way we please.
You surrender if you want; this lunatic's not for turning.
Reconnect your i-Lobotomiser, if you wish.
People appear to be very "anti" the synthesised sound of the M5 via the hifi, (me included)...
But what of the fact that many modern cars, (particularly those with anodyne sounding turbo engines), are already equipped with what is known as a "symposer".
In essence a mechanical valve which alters/tunes/optimises the exhaust sound so that it is heard in the best possible light (sic) by the vehicle occupants.
Do the collective regard this as cheating too, or is this the acceptable face of audio/aural fettling?
But what of the fact that many modern cars, (particularly those with anodyne sounding turbo engines), are already equipped with what is known as a "symposer".
In essence a mechanical valve which alters/tunes/optimises the exhaust sound so that it is heard in the best possible light (sic) by the vehicle occupants.
Do the collective regard this as cheating too, or is this the acceptable face of audio/aural fettling?
lippydave said:
People appear to be very "anti" the synthesised sound of the M5 via the hifi, (me included)...
But what of the fact that many modern cars, (particularly those with anodyne sounding turbo engines), are already equipped with what is known as a "symposer".
In essence a mechanical valve which alters/tunes/optimises the exhaust sound so that it is heard in the best possible light (sic) by the vehicle occupants.
Do the collective regard this as cheating too, or is this the acceptable face of audio/aural fettling?
They are Helmholtz tuned-resonance devices, with a moveable membrane or flap, in the inlet tract - as you say they're in lots of turbo cars. But what of the fact that many modern cars, (particularly those with anodyne sounding turbo engines), are already equipped with what is known as a "symposer".
In essence a mechanical valve which alters/tunes/optimises the exhaust sound so that it is heard in the best possible light (sic) by the vehicle occupants.
Do the collective regard this as cheating too, or is this the acceptable face of audio/aural fettling?
I suppose it's not miles away in principle from the normal messing with the intake and exhaust to make the desired sound, but it still seems a bit fake and underhand.
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