Dear Chris Harris - Does it need to drift?

[deviant]

mmm-five said:

I don't do it on the road—well, maybe the odd tail out action at the odd deserted hairpin with plenty of visibility—but really liked getting the e34 M5's tail out on track—especially on winter airfield days where the Caterwestical brigade have cried off due to it being wet/cold/icy.

Most of the track days I've been on (i.e. in excess of 100) have been fine with drifting around corners, as long as you keep it under control. Spin out too often and you'll get a warning, continue spinning out and you'll be sent home.

I think most places are okay with power oversteer but not drifting. There is a big difference...drifting is setting the car up prior to the corner and often being sideways before entering the corner by kicking the clutch, using the handbrake, purposefully compression locking the rear wheels or going for the classic scando. Doesnt really have a place on a busy track to be honest.

Olivera said:

What has not been mentioned is the fact that general public and car enthusiasts in the main do not have either the experience or skills to drift a car. I'd wager that most PHers couldn't hold a relatively low speed slide at a moderate angle with all stability aids turned off. So the simple answer is most people (including the OP) aren't interested in drifting a car because they can't actually do it.

Undoubtedly there are some good drivers on PH and that read the various motoring magazines but sometimes I wonder how sensible it is to talk so often about the dab of oppo or see pictures of it on the public road or pictures of some hot hatch airborne on a public road. It reads like it is all to easy.

Getting a bit of a wiggle on in 2nd at 15mph can hardly be considered a drift or a dab of oppo moment and is entirely different to a slide at 60mph.

[andy_s]

...and there's a difference between drifting and learning to control a skidding car. Yes, one plays to the other, and that's fine, but my aim when driving isn't to skid/drift, it's to play under that threshold, especially on a public road.

This means I am not a 'petrolhead' according to some comments - so be it. I've had my experiences on skidpans rather than car parks, and it's fun, but it was a means to an end, not the end itself.

[TomN94]

This seems remotely relevant.

[bennyboysvuk]

kbird said:

I use a E90 M3 everyday which is without question the best car I've ever owned, number of times drifted; zero.

You should try it, the E90 M3 is sublime to drift, it's so progressive.

[ConCon1]

Drifting is an artform in the right hands,Tbh I rarely do it,I hate people who don't understand the basic concept of weight transfer!they make up for lack in skill with brute force.

[Alfanatic]

kbird said:

Who on here drifts their car on the road intentionally?

I am a responsible driver and would never ever intentionally drift any car on the Queen's highway

[kbird]

blearyeyedboy said:

Forgive my ignorance, kbird, but what does this phrase mean? Have I missed some in-joke?

Island = road/track/tarmac

[kbird]

My original comment is about tyre smoking drifts accepted by Chris as just showboating. A moment of oversteer that you instantly corrected will connect you to your car like no other driving experience. Read John Barkers M3 Fast Fleet diary in Evo, he never really liked the car until one rainy night it stepped out and he collected it. A connection was made.

[neil_bolton]

To Kbird; I can completely understand your sentiment, on the public highway it's highly unlikely that a drift is an appropriate nor safe way to drive any car - nor is it the quickest if you're looking to get from point a to point b the quickest.

However, it's been mentioned by Chris (whom his M5 drift tutorial video pretty much made my choice of current car) that a car isn't just about the ability to go quickly around a corner, its also about the feel, the ability to step over the limit and not rip your head off.

I ride mountain bikes a lot, especially enjoying the steeper pointier variety of trail, and a very similar maxim can be drawn; sure, you're not really riding as efficiently or quickly if you're drifting all over the shop into berms etc. Some bikes don't respond well to scruff of the neck riding, and spit you off if you take liberties.

But by god is it fun to take those liberties - I hugely enjoy drifting into berms (as can be seen in my profile) - it's neither fast, nor particularly easy on the bike - but hell, do I feel alive after I've pushed the bike past the limits.

It's the same in the car - sure I may have had the odd skid around a roundabout etc but in the main I enjoy driving my M5 at 10/10s and enjoy the feeling of the diff just hanging on, but I save my skids for where I can really enjoy the sensation - Brunters usually my choice. It's pure and simple fun, and it's why when I buy a car, I want to know from someone like Chris or Meaden that it CAN do skids - after all, I'd hate to splunk the best part of my mortgage payments for the next few years on something that is utterly ruthless but not much fun...

I mean, watch this video of me at VMax in my M5 following fellow VMax regular Olly. We were both carrying 4 up passengers - tell me which set had more fun?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mfk58IW8uY

Edited by neil_bolton on Monday 23 January 09:56

[djon]

HorneyMX5 said:

dvs_dave said:

Drifting is fun but does anyone here actually ever intentionally drift their car on a public road?

Never.

That would be silly.

[LuS1fer]

I have never drifted either and if I tried, I'm sure I'd exit stage left pursued by the rear end. i think the "drift" is actually NOT relevent to daily driving but in itself is useful for showing the balance of the car and the interaction of steering, brakes and throttle in relation to overall balance.

So while it is useless as a tool for everyday driving, it may help weigh up the overall feel and balance of the car.

I only really saw one man drift his full rally Escort Mk 1 every night back in the late 70s as he visited our city centre pub on reasonably deserted roads and whilst I was amazed by his ability to master the Scandinavian Flick and subsequent car control, deep down I still thought "tt" because it was just showing off and it was dangerous if it went wrong. I did once try it myself on a loose gravel/dirt car park but all that tended to do was show up the inadequacies of a Viva 1800's finer control abilities.

I imagine back then his tyres would have been something like 165 rally "block tread" tyres.

Consequently, while I understand the skill in drifting, it doesn't even figure on my radar when buying a car.

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

Baryonyx said:

Some drifters, yesterday:

No, you mean The Drifters, yesterday:

[F-Stop Junkie]

Oversteer is to driving like finishing a risotto in butter or a spun sugar cage over a pudding is to cookery. You may indulge from time to time at home, but it's what makes watching cookery programmes all the more fun and interesting.

Some web videos can become so short that all you get is the garnish, rather than the meat of the feeings and sensations of driving, and the eCOTY videos were a tasting menu of oversteer rather than too much about the cars, but let me put it this way: Would you rather have a dab of oppo in your videos, or a view of the boot showing the high entry ledge and intruding wheel wells?

If you've said the later, you want a rather excellent buyer's video like this one, where as I want the former and a big grin on my face.

And I also want lunch. I'm hungry.

Edited by F-Stop Junkie on Monday 23 January 12:40

[J4CKO]

I think we need to take it seriously, it is good fun but only when its totally safe to do so, you know the car and have enough confidence and skill. I used to get a list with a chap of the beareded variety, a decent, steady proffessorial chap, he had a Volvo 240 and remember a couple of drives where the back end kicked out a few times and he just steered into it a little and carried on, didnt remark on it and didnt hold it, just corrected and moved on, not "mad skills" just a non Petrolhead doing what comes natrually to keep his car on course.

[bicycleshorts]

TomN94 said:

This seems remotely relevant.

From this picture alone, it is very difficult to tell the quality of the plastics used for the cup holders.

[10 Pence Short]

For photo shoots and videos it's purely to sell media and apart from that, for 99% of drivers, let alone road users, it's utterly, utterly pointless.

Good fun, but pointless.

[Classic Grad 98]

Spoon73 said:

I once entered a roundabout travelling in one direction and exited it facing in the other

Isn't that the idea!

[danwebster]

If I don't go sideways at least once a day something isn't right.

I believe there is quite a distinction between on the throttle oversteer and going too quickly into a corner and ending up sideways. If you have the skill and experience then one is under the complete control of the driver and the other requires skill and reflexes to gather up.

If you don't like it or can't do it then don't, but don't look down on those that do. I'm an atheist but I don't look down on those with religion.

[andy_s]

danwebster said:

If I don't go sideways at least once a day something isn't right.

I believe there is quite a distinction between on the throttle oversteer and going too quickly into a corner and ending up sideways. If you have the skill and experience then one is under the complete control of the driver and the other requires skill and reflexes to gather up.

If you don't like it or can't do it then don't, but don't look down on those that do. I'm an atheist but I don't look down on those with religion.

As long as you don't look down on those that choose not to go sideways every day...

[Mr E]

Rawwr said:

Forcing oversteer is helpful for when you experience unforced oversteer.

I remember collecting my Elise on November 16th 1999 and then, the following weekend, taking it to a very quiet, very wet, slippery roundabout to see what this oversteer lark was all about. I experimented by teasing it out with the throttle, by lifting-off sharply and by mixing the two together. None of it went well. It took me quite a few weekends before I was able to catch it - but not necessarily control it

I'd have thought that an Elise is probably one of the least friendly things to deliberately attempt to generate significant angle. Lots of grip, insufficient power to easily break traction, large reaction to lift off and very unforgiving should an error be made....

I have video of a savage spin on the track that caught Sarah out earlier this year. A confidence lift in the middle of 3rd turned into a full bore spin so quickly that's quite scary to watch. (New tyres and revised geometry were applied shortly afterwards).

My old citroen ZX was easier to get sideways intentionally (always away from the public roads, of course), partially because the rear wheel steering rubber bushes were somewhat tired and partly because a good boot of throttle usually sorted it out.