RE: BMW's M diesels: the official details
Discussion
Mermaid said:
g3org3y said:
Anyone remember when M Engines looked the part too?
I remember this well. Small, but so so nice... Will we ever see that again?
Doubtful then, perhaps a future 1M?
burrows98 said:
the whole point point of an m powered BMW is to make it better. so why add a diesel engine to it. you'll lose the good engine sound and listen to a poor rumble noise. :-(
You'll actually be listening to computer-faked "engine" noise through the speakers, just like in the M5.Trommel said:
burrows98 said:
the whole point point of an m powered BMW is to make it better. so why add a diesel engine to it. you'll lose the good engine sound and listen to a poor rumble noise. :-(
You'll actually be listening to computer-faked "engine" noise through the speakers, just like in the M5.kambites said:
There were an awful lot less cars and roads in Sweden when it changed than there are in the UK now. It would be a huge task to change, although I agree that it might be worth it in the long run. Especially now the market is generally going away from manual gearboxes (for which RHD is a slight advantage because most drivers keep their stronger, more coordinated hand on the wheel when changing gear).
Its easier to drive on the right. It is the way your brain is wired. Fact. After having lived in the US for nearly four years I can confirm this. I never struggled there, yet even after a year I still occasionally have to thin about it.
k do you want to get into the gubbins of it , just drive and enjoy toppstuff said:
This would not be an issue if BMW properly respected the UK ( and other RHD markets ) in the first place. If they did, the need for RHD would have been factored in at the design stage. BMW do not care, so they did'nt bother including adaptability to RHD in the design brief.
VAG do care, it seems, because they DO include RHD compatibility in their design brief and so the Audi Quattro variants, plus 4x4 Skoda's, Golf R's etc, are all available in the UK in RHD.
For BMW there is no excuse as far as I am concerned. BMW are cynically offering the UK market the minimum they can get away with. From the failure to move the wipers to RHD on 5 and 7 series cars, to the Mini Clubman with the door on the wrong side, to the lack of 4WD options, BMW are taking the piss IMO.
Hi Topstuff,VAG do care, it seems, because they DO include RHD compatibility in their design brief and so the Audi Quattro variants, plus 4x4 Skoda's, Golf R's etc, are all available in the UK in RHD.
For BMW there is no excuse as far as I am concerned. BMW are cynically offering the UK market the minimum they can get away with. From the failure to move the wipers to RHD on 5 and 7 series cars, to the Mini Clubman with the door on the wrong side, to the lack of 4WD options, BMW are taking the piss IMO.
I can 'understand' your point of view and the reasons you give for it. They are a valid customer/potential customer's view and are of course serious. I'll guarantee (as best I can!) that BMW and for that matter, other car brands and indeed, any product manufacturer in all other industries have taken into account yours and others like you's feedback. Big companies can afford to do complex gathering of data and compare with 'trends' in terms of what customers are 'ACTUALLY' doing. This allows them to tweak things in response. It's not just as 'simple' as that but I think you get the gist.
BMW, like any other business looks to maximise profits from sales and reduce costs where possible. Which I suspect, you already know and is common for all other companies and businesses out there.
As already mentioned, a decision has been taken, with as much data as BMW can analyse not to do certain things. You may feel that BMW should've changed the wiper direction (I have an E39 so I know what you mean) and offered new variants in right hand drive etc. However, if I could transport you to BMW or any other company for that matter, and the difference in YOUR figures to present to the board and shareholders etc, is down because you elected to spend £X million converting the wipers or offering a particular variant etc - how long do you think your job would be safe? potentially, the difference could mean overall profitability of the company is reduced. I suspect you understand this point as well. However, you may or may not know the following - of which I've had direct experience of;
If you look at some manufacturers out there, and not just cars, for instance if you go to the worlds biggest Trade fairs and speak to manufacturers directly, you will hear 'oh you're from the UK?.. ahh, we don't really sell to the UK market, we don't really need it' quite often. When I first heard it, I was 'similarly' outraged like you've been about the wipers etc, then when I asked them why the simple response was 'why chase small market, when many other smaller markets and some bigger markets exist where we already make excellent profits on ?' - to me I then 'understood' ..
I'm not saying I know it all, but that when I first heard it was shocking and initially outrageous, but then 'reality' sunk in and I see that it's actually spot on.
The UK market 'wants' a lot of things, it practically shouts for them (similar to what you've said) and then when it comes time to 'put the money where the mouth is' - it often does go very quiet. Again, I'm not saying its for everything and all industries, just a high level view shared by many, including the very companies/people who make the product. Staying with the BMW thing for a second, the E34 M5 had a touring variant, albeit left hand drive only, and total numbers sold were 'acceptable' - had they made a right hand drive version, I suspect they'd have sold a few, but not that many. They decided to skip the E39 M5 Touring altogether, even left hand drive ones. The E60 M5 returned with a Touring variant after much more visibility thanks to the internet for people who 'Must have one' and 'really want one' and 'they're missing the point if they don't bring one out' type responses on forums like this! Guess what, BMW dipped their toe in again, and yep, you guessed it, not very many were actually sold....
BMW are a 'volume' car maker, not a small specialist maker who could cater to such variances in customers needs and wants.
Not meaning to sound negative to you in any way.. when i think of the people who said the lines about not even needing the UK market, I still get a jolt of outrage, which passes within a second when I think 'why' !
Cheers, Dennis!
^^^^^^ Very good post Dennis
Having said that it's a shame when the cars are originally engineered they can't think about things like this....surely if they had thought about engineering the F10 for 4WD in RHD form from the outset it might have been relatively straightforward? After all Audi seem to do it pretty easily...although I grant you that their "standard" car is FWD and not RWD.
Back to the cars.....I really should be the target market for these cars....owned M3's as a single lad and since I've had a family I have had a 535d and X5SD (neither have blown their turbo's!). If I was to get one it would be the X5 but honestly I can't really see the point....maybe it's my age but whilst I think the X5 is a great car the idea of a diesel performance variant is somewhat lost on me as I suspect it will be on a lot of the UK market. I was going to buy a 3.0d but when the X5 SD was announced it seemed a bit of a bargain (see below).
I also think the `X5 M50d is stupidly priced compared to the rest of the range.....I bought an SD (now 4.0d) because it only costs £2k more than a 3.0d.....so you get an extra turbo charger and bigger brakes for £2k.....looks cheap compared to the £500 DMS would want for chipping a standard 3.0d. Properly engineered and you get a full warranty. Anyone that buys a 3.0d and chips it needs their head examined.....
The X5 M50d is already on BMW's website and will be £60k...so that's £10k more than a X5 4.0 d Sport for an extra turbo some M badges and a slightly posher interior and upgraded suspension and bodykit(which probably actually costs BMW the square root of bugger all). Seems expensive against BMW's existing pricing policy which puts the Sport at £4k over an SE...this in theory should be a similar step up in price.
Having said that it's a shame when the cars are originally engineered they can't think about things like this....surely if they had thought about engineering the F10 for 4WD in RHD form from the outset it might have been relatively straightforward? After all Audi seem to do it pretty easily...although I grant you that their "standard" car is FWD and not RWD.
Back to the cars.....I really should be the target market for these cars....owned M3's as a single lad and since I've had a family I have had a 535d and X5SD (neither have blown their turbo's!). If I was to get one it would be the X5 but honestly I can't really see the point....maybe it's my age but whilst I think the X5 is a great car the idea of a diesel performance variant is somewhat lost on me as I suspect it will be on a lot of the UK market. I was going to buy a 3.0d but when the X5 SD was announced it seemed a bit of a bargain (see below).
I also think the `X5 M50d is stupidly priced compared to the rest of the range.....I bought an SD (now 4.0d) because it only costs £2k more than a 3.0d.....so you get an extra turbo charger and bigger brakes for £2k.....looks cheap compared to the £500 DMS would want for chipping a standard 3.0d. Properly engineered and you get a full warranty. Anyone that buys a 3.0d and chips it needs their head examined.....
The X5 M50d is already on BMW's website and will be £60k...so that's £10k more than a X5 4.0 d Sport for an extra turbo some M badges and a slightly posher interior and upgraded suspension and bodykit(which probably actually costs BMW the square root of bugger all). Seems expensive against BMW's existing pricing policy which puts the Sport at £4k over an SE...this in theory should be a similar step up in price.
fishman said:
O no someone has said it already.......TQ.........here we go again bla bla bla....
I'll be honest Fishman, you strike me as a BMW diesel fanboy to the point where even if you knew a model of some sort of diesel BMW wasn't a good car you would deny it.What do you see the disadvantages of the latest line of these new BMW M diesels?
Edited to add: ^^ Btw I thought I should add I'm a BMW fan myself.
Edited by BeirutTaxi on Thursday 26th January 20:30
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