RE: Driven: Toyota GT 86
Discussion
Kozy said:
To everyone questioning the 'slow' 0-60 time, it runs on skinny eco tyres which probably have a friction co-efficient of around 0.6. It's more than likely that this car is severly traction limited in first gear despite it's 'embarrasing' 200bhp.
Stick the same sticky high performance tyres that all the hot hatches get from the factory and I'll bet it can do low 6s easily. Not that it matters.
Rather like the old E30 325 Sport vs the normal 325, it might also depend on how many gearchanges you need to do before 60! Stick the same sticky high performance tyres that all the hot hatches get from the factory and I'll bet it can do low 6s easily. Not that it matters.
After reading the last few pages I can see and understand both sides of the argument for this car. I personally am definitely in the 'love it and need one' camp. The way I see the car is this, it's a useful more practical Lotus Elise. Like the Elise it's far from the most powerful car you can buy, ok it won't handle quite aswell but the pay off for that is a car that's a hell of a lot more usable day to day, it seems like it will be 85-90% of the fun of the Lotus to drive while still being relatively decent on fuel. Like the Lotus it's not about what it can do on paper it's about the driving experience.
This might just be how I'm interpreting the point of this car but I think it's a valid way of looking at it. And now I await various posts calling me all the names under the sun and wanting me to burn for comparing it to the Lotus.
This might just be how I'm interpreting the point of this car but I think it's a valid way of looking at it. And now I await various posts calling me all the names under the sun and wanting me to burn for comparing it to the Lotus.
DanDC5 said:
After reading the last few pages I can see and understand both sides of the argument for this car. I personally am definitely in the 'love it and need one' camp. The way I see the car is this, it's a useful more practical Lotus Elise. Like the Elise it's far from the most powerful car you can buy, ok it won't handle quite aswell but the pay off for that is a car that's a hell of a lot more usable day to day, it seems like it will be 85-90% of the fun of the Lotus to drive while still being relatively decent on fuel. Like the Lotus it's not about what it can do on paper it's about the driving experience.
This might just be how I'm interpreting the point of this car but I think it's a valid way of looking at it. And now I await various posts calling me all the names under the sun and wanting me to burn for comparing it to the Lotus.
Don't think you should burn, but I'd see it more of a practical mx5 than Elise This might just be how I'm interpreting the point of this car but I think it's a valid way of looking at it. And now I await various posts calling me all the names under the sun and wanting me to burn for comparing it to the Lotus.
Edited by elementad on Thursday 2nd February 15:20
Sorry for comparing the GT 86 with yet another out of production car but I have to make a comparison to a very recent car – the just out of production Mazda RX8.
It was of a similar mould [i.e. rwd, 200ish bho, lsd, Japanese], except it had 4 useful seats and not a 2 seater with 2 unusable seats, similar performance [well faster actually] and a less then 25k list for top of range model, and when they were on sale you could buy them from brokers brand new under £20k and I believe Mazda dealers gave similar massive discounts too
Just a real shame it was fatally flawed and they didn’t fit it with a normal – i.e. non rotary – engine. Mazda need to bring out another one with a conventional engine
But now, as the other PH article states, they are a real bargain, as in less then 3k for mint low mileage ones! These cars truly are PHENOMIMULY cheap, just a crying shame they do 15mpg and drink oil at alarming rate and if you don’t feed it enough it will die
Please note - I entered a – I know these greatly offend some people but they are available to add when posting a ph comment. I add them so imply I am not taking the post seriously and getting worked up or anything – as it can be hard to judge context in emails, forums posts. Just to clear that up
It was of a similar mould [i.e. rwd, 200ish bho, lsd, Japanese], except it had 4 useful seats and not a 2 seater with 2 unusable seats, similar performance [well faster actually] and a less then 25k list for top of range model, and when they were on sale you could buy them from brokers brand new under £20k and I believe Mazda dealers gave similar massive discounts too
Just a real shame it was fatally flawed and they didn’t fit it with a normal – i.e. non rotary – engine. Mazda need to bring out another one with a conventional engine
But now, as the other PH article states, they are a real bargain, as in less then 3k for mint low mileage ones! These cars truly are PHENOMIMULY cheap, just a crying shame they do 15mpg and drink oil at alarming rate and if you don’t feed it enough it will die
Please note - I entered a
– I know these greatly offend some people but they are available to add when posting a ph comment. I add them so imply I am not taking the post seriously and getting worked up or anything – as it can be hard to judge context in emails, forums posts. Just to clear that up DanDC5 said:
Like the Lotus it's not about what it can do on paper it's about the driving experience.
Yes, it will be similar in straight line performance to the least powerful Elise, probably quicker to 100, though it's worth remembering that while the current 1.6 Elise takes 21 seconds to hit 100 and the Toyota should be around 17-18 seconds (about the same as a basic series 1 Elise), most series 2 cars will do it in 11-14 seconds.I was very tempted, but sadly the poor exchange rates have put an end to that. For 25k+ it needs a nicer interior, and a bit more power. I could put up with an Elise interior, because I can see why it looks like it does (lightness). The GT86 interior looks cheap without being cheap.
Cars like the Clio 200 get some stick for the lack of mid-range shove, and lack of overtaking grunt compared to competitors. And the GT86 will be no better in that respect.
Cars like the Clio 200 get some stick for the lack of mid-range shove, and lack of overtaking grunt compared to competitors. And the GT86 will be no better in that respect.
I also like it because it will bring the flat four to many who have never understood or experienced this great design of Engine! And it will be a much welcome/needed shot in the arm for Subaru...they have made some cracking motors and this i feel will be no exception
Good luck to this car and all its new owners
Good luck to this car and all its new owners
Chris71 said:
What we're lacking is a light hearted, afforadble (ish! ) fun car ... like the MX5 but a bit more practical. And that's what this car is going to be, surely? It's tapping a niche that isn't very well served, as opposed to adding another option to the 370Z/Z4M/Cayman market.
I was actually thinking today: when Autocar test it, they'll have a top five comparison at the end of the test. ) fun car ... like the MX5 but a bit more practical. And that's what this car is going to be, surely? It's tapping a niche that isn't very well served, as opposed to adding another option to the 370Z/Z4M/Cayman market.What should the other four be? Current production cars only please.
Johnnytheboy said:
I was actually thinking today: when Autocar test it, they'll have a top five comparison at the end of the test.
What should the other four be? Current production cars only please.
Subaru BRZWhat should the other four be? Current production cars only please.
Audi TT (fwd, 160ps 1.8TFSI)
BMW 120i (rwd, 170ps)
Scirocco 2.0 (fwd, 210ps)
I reckon. There's only one of those I'd consider as an alternative
otolith said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I was actually thinking today: when Autocar test it, they'll have a top five comparison at the end of the test.
What should the other four be? Current production cars only please.
Subaru BRZWhat should the other four be? Current production cars only please.
Audi TT (fwd, 160ps 1.8TFSI)
BMW 120i (rwd, 170ps)
Scirocco 2.0 (fwd, 210ps)
I reckon. There's only one of those I'd consider as an alternative
Maybe EVO will do the inevitable GT86 vs AE86 new meets old.
Also a BMW 125i M-sport ( £27k ) - 218bhp - might be in the mix
s m said:
I'm looking forward to all the mag tests in a few months. I'm not sure if they'd bother with the BRZ in a group test but hope to see a twin test of the 2.
Maybe EVO will do the inevitable GT86 vs AE86 new meets old.
Also a BMW 125i M-sport ( £27k ) - 218bhp - might be in the mix
If they push the budget to 27k, it will bring the higher powered TT and the entry level Elise into play. Maybe EVO will do the inevitable GT86 vs AE86 new meets old.
Also a BMW 125i M-sport ( £27k ) - 218bhp - might be in the mix
otolith said:
s m said:
I'm looking forward to all the mag tests in a few months. I'm not sure if they'd bother with the BRZ in a group test but hope to see a twin test of the 2.
Maybe EVO will do the inevitable GT86 vs AE86 new meets old.
Also a BMW 125i M-sport ( £27k ) - 218bhp - might be in the mix
If they push the budget to 27k, it will bring the higher powered TT and the entry level Elise into play. Maybe EVO will do the inevitable GT86 vs AE86 new meets old.
Also a BMW 125i M-sport ( £27k ) - 218bhp - might be in the mix
flatline84 said:
I want to see a Lotus elise vs GT86 test. Same price basically, wonder how they measure up.
I`d go with the lotus. Betterlooking, superior image, faster, better MPG, vastly superior residuals... and not q u i t e as practical but oh well
I reckon that test will be very likely - Lotus is about £28/29k and similar straight line go - they will be contrasting the feel/handling in corners vs the extra practicality/useability day to dayI`d go with the lotus. Betterlooking, superior image, faster, better MPG, vastly superior residuals... and not q u i t e as practical but oh well
An interesting thread with varied opinions.
A couple of things that jump out at me from the posts and making no judgement on a car i have not driven, which i believe includes "ALL" of us except for the author!
Personally i cannot see how a lightweight, low power (in comparison to modern standards), low spec car will or can cost £25k+. A 350z was cheaper when it was released!
Why are there so many comments on tuning, increasing the power etc This wont happen till years down the line, just like any other Jap car, unless of course your not worried about loosing your warranty. Sure the Japs will be doing it, but it will probably costs a fair bit less in Japan to start. To compare re price, wasnt the GTR something like £31k new in Japan?
I am afraid i will concur with some, i am not sure it will live up to the reputation, owners will get bored quickly, it will depreciate fast and it will only gain favour when there are not many left like the AE86 except for the die hard enthusiasts who have always raved about it!
A couple of things that jump out at me from the posts and making no judgement on a car i have not driven, which i believe includes "ALL" of us except for the author!
Personally i cannot see how a lightweight, low power (in comparison to modern standards), low spec car will or can cost £25k+. A 350z was cheaper when it was released!
Why are there so many comments on tuning, increasing the power etc This wont happen till years down the line, just like any other Jap car, unless of course your not worried about loosing your warranty. Sure the Japs will be doing it, but it will probably costs a fair bit less in Japan to start. To compare re price, wasnt the GTR something like £31k new in Japan?
I am afraid i will concur with some, i am not sure it will live up to the reputation, owners will get bored quickly, it will depreciate fast and it will only gain favour when there are not many left like the AE86 except for the die hard enthusiasts who have always raved about it!
Edited by jetpilot on Thursday 2nd February 18:45
Johnnytheboy said:
I was actually thinking today: when Autocar test it, they'll have a top five comparison at the end of the test.
What should the other four be? Current production cars only please.
Peugeot RCZ will definitely be in the mix, and it'll take some beating, gets very good reviewsWhat should the other four be? Current production cars only please.
I'm surprised after reading this thread that nobody's matched this car up more with a Ginetta G40R. An even lighter car and more driver focused. If I had that sort of money to spend on a car that isn't going to be bought for it's creature comforts, then I think I'd be more tempted to go the whole-hog and get the Ginetta.
Dan 87 said:
I'm surprised after reading this thread that nobody's matched this car up more with a Ginetta G40R. An even lighter car and more driver focused.
I think that's where it differs. Personally I suspect a marque like Ginetta is still more likely to appeal to the weekend enthusiasts who are already buying low-volume cars like Lotuses and Caterhams. I suspect the Toyota will tend to sell to people who aren't usually adventurous enough to live with something like an Elise every day or perhaps those wanting a more refined daily driver to go with their weekend toy.
I just hope selling to people weened on massively over-tyred front wheel drive cars doesn't lead to a backlash if they start putting them in hedges. I'd love to see the GT 86 do well, not least because I rather fancy one when the second hand prices come down.
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