Re: New Audi RS4 Avant: see it at Geneva

[f328nvl]

E38Ross said:

don't get me wrong, i love a manual box in the right car; but i fail to see how the double clutch boxes don't allow YOU to be in control of what's going on?? they can be fully manual, ya know????

is this S-tronic the one found in the R8? if so, isn't this a bit, erm, crap compared to the new DSG and DCT boxes fitted, like the one found in the new M5? looking for an answer off someone like garlick who's driven cars with them fitted

I have a DSG S4 and have bought five A4s over 15 years(2.8/S4/RS4/3.0TDI/S4) including the original RS4. The current S4 is the first car I have ever had with a non-manual (i.e. no gear lever, you know what I mean) gearbox. It is excellent virtually all the time. The only time it annoys me is;

1) in manual just rolling along I sometimes forget that it's a 6 cylinder engine and leave it in too high a gear. I forget it won't kickdown if I tell it not to : My fault.

2)At night dipping main beam is confusing. After 25 years of only using my left hand to dip the lights, I am prone to accidently pulling the paddle and changing down and leaving the headlights on main beam by mistake; I always assume that the blinded driver coming the other way realises from the screaming engine note as go by in the wrong gear, that I have inadvertantly pulled the wrong lever.

I will spec the same on the RS4 that I literally just put a deposit down on (or registered interest more accurately). I am no graet Audi frek either, it's just a way to transport dogs and children, I usually have something more exotic for fun.

[PHMatt]

Throwing some meths on the fire I know but......I could be wrong, but arent all of these cars available with DSG and manual (such as Golf R's etc) quicker in every respect in DSG guise than the manuals?

I'm quite happy to admit a microchip will have a better clue what gear I'm supposed to be in than I will and I consider myself a compitent driver.

[LuS1fer]

Didn't Clarkson say (if you set any store by his opinion but it seemed genuine) that DSG cars are brilliant except in town when they are dim-witted and fail to provide the required instant response or non-consecutive gear selection when required.

[jhayward1980]

f328nvl said:

2)At night dipping main beam is confusing. After 25 years of only using my left hand to dip the lights, I am prone to accidently pulling the paddle and changing down and leaving the headlights on main beam by mistake; I always assume that the blinded driver coming the other way realises from the screaming engine note as go by in the wrong gear, that I have inadvertantly pulled the wrong lever.

Nope - probably just thinks you're a bit of a knob! It's ok though sometimes I spray the windscreen when trying to let people out of junctions with a flash. Less than cool in a convertible.

[PHMatt]

jhayward1980 said:

Nope - probably just thinks you're a bit of a knob! It's ok though sometimes I spray the windscreen when trying to let people out of junctions with a flash. Less than cool in a convertible.

Haha, done that plenty of times. At one point I was using 3 different cars regularly all with the controls in different places. I could never get the indicators on, flash the lights or spray the windscreen when I actually wanted them!

I think if I ever had paddle shifters I'd leave it in auto mode unless I was "in the mood"
Can you do that? As in disable the paddles for a period?

I desperately want to move up from my E46 330 to an M3 with SMGII but feel like I'd need to learn how to drive again lol.

[F1GTRUeno]

If they can do the same suspension and settings as the old RS4 they'd be onto something.

Don't know how they could get it so right with the B7 and then no replicate it for subsequent cars.

[Mermaid]

F1GTRUeno said:

..
Don't know how they could get it so right with the B7 and then no replicate it for subsequent cars.

Engineers in charge of the B7 (Reil's baby), Accountants probably for the RS5.

[kambites]

PHMatt said:

Throwing some meths on the fire I know but......I could be wrong, but arent all of these cars available with DSG and manual (such as Golf R's etc) quicker in every respect in DSG guise than the manuals?

Yes of course they are. I don't really see why that matters though, it's not a racing car.

[cluelesscarnut]

i think audi have made a mistake going with the 4.2 v8 n/a engine as bmw are odds on to release their next m3 with a turbocharged engine.i think audi should have waited and developed something along the lines of a 3.5 turbo v6.

[kambites]

cluelesscarnut said:

i think audi have made a mistake going with the 4.2 v8 n/a engine as bmw are odds on to release their next m3 with a turbocharged engine.i think audi should have waited and developed something along the lines of a 3.5 turbo v6.

On the other hand, that would be a major reason to pick the Audi over the BMW for me. Unless they don't give it a manual gearbox.

[SD1992]

kambites said:

Yes of course they are. I don't really see why that matters though, it's not a racing car.

They have recently dropped the manual gearbox from the Audi S4 though.

I think part of the reason why the car companies are pushing DSG gearboxes is because automatic gearboxes perform better in the emissions tests due to the flawed test regulations. With a manual there is a set rpm where the gears have to be changed, but since an autobox can change when it likes these rules do not apply - meaning that in some cases IIRC the automatic equivalent of the same car / engine is in a lower tax band than the manual one.

That could be wrong, but I am sure there was a thread on here about it a while back

[kambites]

That's sort of true, but I think (only from reading comments on here) that you can get 'round that with a manual by fitting change up lights?

[SD1992]

Good point - I remember reading something about that on here.

Perhaps someone more in the know would be able to confirm / deny this...?

[Big Six]

Yawn.....

[E38Ross]

Big Six said:

Yawn.....

Useful post. If you've been in the last one, you wouldn't yawn.

[hughfh]

First of all, I like Audi and their cars. I really do. But their product planning policies wrt body styles make no sense. I read in Autocar that the new RS4 was Avant only because the S5 Sportback already filled the gap of a fast 4-door and the market is moving away from hot saloons. Really? So by their logic there's no need for an RS5 because a fast coupe already exists (S5) and no need for an RS4 because the S4 Avant exists.... Oops, who else can see a hole in their argument? And the market is moving away from hot 4-doors..... again, really? So BMW must really be kicking themselves for being halfway through developing the next saloon-based F30 M3 when there's no market for them. Yes I know the coupes sell better than the saloon but they don't see the need for an estate-only version. And Mercedes with their C63 in saloon, coupe and estate guises - at least they offer the consumer a choice. Honestly, I don't know how these people are allowed to get away with such nonsense.

The same Autocar article also states that the new RS4 Avant will be a 6 speed manual as standard with S tronic optional. Again, where's the logic in that when to my mind estate would be better suited to auto and coupe (RS5) to manual. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are offering the choice but why now when the RS3/RS5/revised S4 et al are all auto or nothing? Here's a CRAZY ideal Audi - offer all your performance vehicles with a choice of manual and auto transmissions, just like your madcap rival from Munich does. And no bleating about emmissions regs please because if BMW, Porsche etc. can make it work for both transmissions then so can you.

My personal opinion is that Audi puts technology (vorsprung durch technik) ahead of driving pleasure (sheer driving pleasure/the ultimate driving machine) and so do many of their buyers i.e. if an S tronic gearbox can change gears in a blink of an eye and save x% fuel then that is more impressive in a brochure or press release than the old school and old news pleasure of a 3rd pedal etc. Just remember when they released their first DSG on the A3 3.2 hatch - all press reviews were of the DSG only and what were the overriding comments, time and again? "Very clever technology and nice to drive but the car is missing a vital element of driver interaction and control [compared to the last hot A3 the 225 S3 which was manual only]". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the DSG was entirely the reason for the dulled responses; every new iteration of a car seems to have that complaint levelled at it due to increasing sound deadening measures, safety kit etc. but I reckon a manual 3.2 might have elicited a more postive reaction. Oh well, rant over. Again, I do like Audis!! I just wish they were more flexible and consistent in their policies.

[Mermaid]

E38Ross said:

Big Six said:

Yawn.....

Useful post. If you've been in the last one, you wouldn't yawn.

But this is not the last one

[Lucas Ayde]

LuS1fer said:

Didn't Clarkson say (if you set any store by his opinion but it seemed genuine) that DSG cars are brilliant except in town when they are dim-witted and fail to provide the required instant response or non-consecutive gear selection when required.

He was talking about the paddle shift in the Lambo Aventador, which is a single clutch affair. Single clutch sequential boxes do tend to be quite slow to shift and clunky at lower speeds, so he was likely correct in his observation.

Double clutch boxes shift 'instantly' and as a result are if anything nippier than manuals in traffic, depending on how the shift points are mapped. VAG DSG boxes result in quite sluggish performance at low speeds in 'D' mode because the shifts seem to be made as early as possible, presumably for economy/emissions reasons. In 'S' mode they are totally responsive as they attempt to keep the revs in the power band of the turbo but this means jerkier progress at those low 'in traffic' speeds which is not ideal. You can always start changing manually with the paddles if you need to.

[sagarich]

goron59 said:

Pleased the RS4 will live on, but I do hope it's not a disappointment like the 5.

This.

[Jandywa]

Pretty sure tiff needell said the RS5 was 'his kind of audi'
doesn't sound too dissapointed to me.