RE: Driven: Lotus Evora S IPS
Discussion
Not surprised about the price. About £35,000 for an Elise, Exige is around £50,000 so they are obviously going to set the Evora at around £70,000. I do think Lotus are pushing their luck a bit. People will buy Lotus' mainly for trackdays and B road blasts. Setting the Evora in the same price range as 911s is ridiculous when Porsche make a far superior all round package. You could buy a very very tidy GT3 for the price of an Evora and it'll still have a better interior with cage n all.
Fittster said:
theboyfold said:
I love Lotus, I love the brand, I think the Evora is lovely in the flesh (I know I'm in the minority with this). It's such a shame what they are trying to do. I would love it if they built a 1.8 RWD soft top like the old MX5 and sell it off at a price that people can afford. Why they are trying to fight the likes of Porsche is utter madness to me.
Because the can't go against the volume businesses like Mazda. They don't make money selling the Elise.
There only option is to try and move upmarket (something Colin Chapman always wanted to do) but as they have the wrong badge little chance.
Just like Honda will shortly find out people buy sports cars so they can say to the neighbours "I own a Porsche".
Here's my 2P worth...
I've owned a Lotus Evora IPS for about 3 weeks - bought from new for £55k. Compared to the other Lotus' I've looked at it was the only one that interested me. It is a good interior, is responsive, steers very well, is extremely planted on the road and although the IPS gearbox isn't the best example of a techtronic I've seen, its still pretty good for a daily driver. The sports mode helps compensate a lot.
I drove the Evora S manual and to be frank, didn't like the gearbox at all. It was just... ugly. The IPS suits the car a lot better for me.
I've driven a few older Porches that my GF owns and IMHO the Evora is a lot better.
That being said however, my Sagaris is still my favourite.
I looked at the IPS S option, but for the price it seemed a bit OTT for what you were getting.
If I wanted to spend 75k on a car, I would look for something more from the Evora S, but at the 35-55k range, the Evora seems to work.
I've owned a Lotus Evora IPS for about 3 weeks - bought from new for £55k. Compared to the other Lotus' I've looked at it was the only one that interested me. It is a good interior, is responsive, steers very well, is extremely planted on the road and although the IPS gearbox isn't the best example of a techtronic I've seen, its still pretty good for a daily driver. The sports mode helps compensate a lot.
I drove the Evora S manual and to be frank, didn't like the gearbox at all. It was just... ugly. The IPS suits the car a lot better for me.
I've driven a few older Porches that my GF owns and IMHO the Evora is a lot better.
That being said however, my Sagaris is still my favourite.
I looked at the IPS S option, but for the price it seemed a bit OTT for what you were getting.
If I wanted to spend 75k on a car, I would look for something more from the Evora S, but at the 35-55k range, the Evora seems to work.
juansolo said:
snuffy said:
It's just my personal opinion but the reason I say it is that when Lotus were making the M250 I came within a knats cock of putting my deposit down. I didn't in the end, but what a debarcle that turned in to. So, for that reason, I'd trust Lotus about as far as I could comfortably spit a rat.
Ah the M250. Lotus were riding the crest of a wave at that point. They'd just completed the run of VX220s and had released the S2 Elise. The S2 Exige was just around the corner, and they had designed a mid-engined 2 seat V6 powered beaut of a car. There's a lot of Evora in this. But no back seats, minimalist but elegant interior, longditudinal engine IIRC with a proper transaxle (could be wrong about that looking at the back end. Might have been wishful thinking on my part). It looked the b
ks and if I remember right, had a lot of deposits. Then it was dropped and instead we just got one special edition paint job after another. Eventually we got the Evora which was a lardy M250, the engine had been shifted sideways to fit in the rear seats and it'd been 'improved' internally to move the brand more upmarket unstead of concentrating on what makes Lotus great. I think this was the moment that they most dropped the ball. Loved the M250. If it had ever come into being I could see me in one of those so much more than an Evora. Great though the Evora is, it's trying so hard to be something it isn't. The M250 had the purity nailed. Not so bothered about the scissor doors mind you.
(oh, and it was transverse V6 not longditudinal engine, from what I was told at the time, Renault were going to do a deal on the V6 as a back-to-back deal with Lotus engineering doing some work on it for a Renault, this all fell apart when they failed to make the targets set by Renault)
The pricing seems to be a particularly UK specific issue. Here in Switzerland they cost about the same as the cayman and sold about 40% as much as the Porsche last year (given a much smaller dealer network). That being said Aston sold over twice as many cygnets and almost half the number of 1-77s. Porsche sold pretty much the same number of 911s as the rest of the market segment combined.
I much preferred driving the evora to the Porsches. That being said, if I was buying a car to get me to and back the airport early in a morning I might think twice. Lotus's issue is that the early quality was maybe ok for a weekend toy but didn't hit the target for something to be used more regularly. I tend to think the new management has mostly sorted that issue.
I much preferred driving the evora to the Porsches. That being said, if I was buying a car to get me to and back the airport early in a morning I might think twice. Lotus's issue is that the early quality was maybe ok for a weekend toy but didn't hit the target for something to be used more regularly. I tend to think the new management has mostly sorted that issue.
Scuffers said:
Agree with most of that, if they had spent some of the Elise money on finishing the M250 and got it out at the projected £45K, it would have sold.
(oh, and it was transverse V6 not longditudinal engine, from what I was told at the time, Renault were going to do a deal on the V6 as a back-to-back deal with Lotus engineering doing some work on it for a Renault, this all fell apart when they failed to make the targets set by Renault)
I think timing hurt Lotus too(oh, and it was transverse V6 not longditudinal engine, from what I was told at the time, Renault were going to do a deal on the V6 as a back-to-back deal with Lotus engineering doing some work on it for a Renault, this all fell apart when they failed to make the targets set by Renault)
If the Evora had launched at the time of the M250 i think it would have been a big hit too, the looks seem fine to be, prefer to the M250 in fact and 280hp/350hp back then would have hit the right notes too + it would have come to market in the good times
Only thing wrong with the Evora, is it's come to market at the wrong time, with too little HP for 2011/12 and they really should have launched it with a better Sounding Exhaust, but at least the 2012 address some of this
It's a shame Lotus did not use the direct injection version of the yota V6 it's much more powerful and with a lotus tuned ECU could have done 320/330 N/A with similar CO2, MPG, with a S/C version nearer 400
I like the look of the new cars, but getting them to market at the right quality level from the start is going to be a challenge, the company will be finished if they dont, and i think if proton sell them, and they get scooped up by some private equity, or anything else other than a major auto maker, they will go under aswell.
peterattheboro said:
Not surprised about the price. About £35,000 for an Elise, Exige is around £50,000 so they are obviously going to set the Evora at around £70,000. I do think Lotus are pushing their luck a bit. People will buy Lotus' mainly for trackdays and B road blasts. Setting the Evora in the same price range as 911s is ridiculous when Porsche make a far superior all round package. You could buy a very very tidy GT3 for the price of an Evora and it'll still have a better interior with cage n all.
Lotus doesn't have to focus on price points. Let the Evora be slightly more than the Exige or whatever. Let them cannabalize each other and get rid of the weaker seller if you have to, but I think Lotus needs volume and I think you would sell a lot more Evora's if they had been correctly priced, even if they are overlapping with Exiges. The reason Evora's are depreciating so much has to be, in large part at least, due to being overpriced in the first place.The other alternative would have been to make the Evora look like a car that should cost so much more than the Exige. Imo, it doesn't.
The demise of Lotus is inevitable. Only a question of time. Situation is spookily similar to Rover when BMW pulled the plug: lots of optimistic talk, plans for new models, lots of articles in Autocar. But just as it was clear that Rover had no realistic hope of surviving as an independent company it seems clear to me that neither does Lotus. It will be a sad day when it comes, but come it will.
I too bought a brand new MY11 Evora IPS last week, and have added 1,300km to the odo since.
I test drove Mercedes and Porsche, and both were shall we say, competent in their own teutonic way. However, despite their brilliance and technical prowess they left me cold. Sometimes perfection is too soulless and cold. The Merc's auto was crap and slushy though, but the Porsche's PDK very good.
I then test drove the Evora IPS and just could not stop grinning, in fact, laughing out loud with delight, particularly when in Sport Manual mode and keep revs from 3500-7000 revs and negotiating tight twisting roads. The Evora chassis is utterly sublime and peerless. It is perhaps the finest chassis I have ever driven, bar none.
I did not see the IPS auto as a negative and in fact its operation was seamless to the driving experience and I did not experience any ofmthe symptoms of the reviewer. In fact, the shove in the back when slamming from 2nd to 3rd is actually intoxicatingly addictive.
No, there was no comparison to the German marques at all. The Evora has ahuge personality and the IPS was the user-friendly icing n the cake for me. They offered me a drive ofmthe manual S, but I was not tempted ar all. In fact, there is so little difference in performance between the IPS and the S manual that the price difference is not justified IMHO.
The clincher?
Well the Evora is less than HALF THE PRICE of the base model 911 here in Australia.
I'll say that again. Here is Oz, we buy an Evora IPS at less than half the price of a 911 and the Evora is the better car.
Added to that, it is incredibly RARE. Less than 40 Evoras exist in all of Australia, so believe me, this car turns heads like nothing else on the road. In a Merc you are invisible. In a Lambo and Ferrari, noticed. In a Porsche you are a common sight.
In an Evora, you are a rock star.
I've never had so much attention, fun and pure delight as I'm having in this car, and I have owned 25 sportcars over the past 31 years.
I test drove Mercedes and Porsche, and both were shall we say, competent in their own teutonic way. However, despite their brilliance and technical prowess they left me cold. Sometimes perfection is too soulless and cold. The Merc's auto was crap and slushy though, but the Porsche's PDK very good.
I then test drove the Evora IPS and just could not stop grinning, in fact, laughing out loud with delight, particularly when in Sport Manual mode and keep revs from 3500-7000 revs and negotiating tight twisting roads. The Evora chassis is utterly sublime and peerless. It is perhaps the finest chassis I have ever driven, bar none.
I did not see the IPS auto as a negative and in fact its operation was seamless to the driving experience and I did not experience any ofmthe symptoms of the reviewer. In fact, the shove in the back when slamming from 2nd to 3rd is actually intoxicatingly addictive.
No, there was no comparison to the German marques at all. The Evora has ahuge personality and the IPS was the user-friendly icing n the cake for me. They offered me a drive ofmthe manual S, but I was not tempted ar all. In fact, there is so little difference in performance between the IPS and the S manual that the price difference is not justified IMHO.
The clincher?
Well the Evora is less than HALF THE PRICE of the base model 911 here in Australia.
I'll say that again. Here is Oz, we buy an Evora IPS at less than half the price of a 911 and the Evora is the better car.
Added to that, it is incredibly RARE. Less than 40 Evoras exist in all of Australia, so believe me, this car turns heads like nothing else on the road. In a Merc you are invisible. In a Lambo and Ferrari, noticed. In a Porsche you are a common sight.
In an Evora, you are a rock star.
I've never had so much attention, fun and pure delight as I'm having in this car, and I have owned 25 sportcars over the past 31 years.
When I bought my first S2 Elise what convinced me was that for more or less the price of a Golf GTi I could buy an Elise. When I look at the Evora S I don't compare it to a Porsche 911 but rather something like a BMW M3. Decently specced an M3 costs £60k. Really thats the maximum price the Evora S with options should be.
The only way Lotus is going to off load its Evoras' is with some very tempting finance offers.
The only way Lotus is going to off load its Evoras' is with some very tempting finance offers.
Schnellmann said:
The demise of Lotus is inevitable. Only a question of time. Situation is spookily similar to Rover when BMW pulled the plug: lots of optimistic talk, plans for new models, lots of articles in Autocar. But just as it was clear that Rover had no realistic hope of surviving as an independent company it seems clear to me that neither does Lotus. It will be a sad day when it comes, but come it will.
Lotus isn't an independent company and hasn't been for a very long time. It may well still be true, though.
Well the Evora is less than HALF THE PRICE of the base model 911 here in Australia.
I'll say that again. Here is Oz, we buy an Evora IPS at less than half the price of a 911 and the Evora is the better car.
quote]
If the Evora were half the price of a 911 in the UK then I expect there would have been more buyers too. Seems odd though that the pricing strategy is so different between territories.
Schnellmann said:
koorby said:
Well the Evora is less than HALF THE PRICE of the base model 911 here in Australia.
I'll say that again. Here is Oz, we buy an Evora IPS at less than half the price of a 911 and the Evora is the better car.
If the Evora were half the price of a 911 in the UK then I expect there would have been more buyers too. Seems odd though that the pricing strategy is so different between territories.I'll say that again. Here is Oz, we buy an Evora IPS at less than half the price of a 911 and the Evora is the better car.
for example, an (optioned) RS5 in Aus is some $210k AUD (~£142K) clearly a stupidly high price to put people off buying imports.
Lotus is not an upmarket brand. Look what Colin Chapman designed - the Seven the Elite the Elan. He used cheap and lightweight technology to produce real sports cars for those on a budget which made the big boys look stupid. He borrowed engines and made silk purses out of pigs ears.
That is what Lotus needs to do now. Mazda have made a fortune ripping off a sixties Chapman design. They need to get into bed with a big boy and produce a two seater for the mass market a few grand dearer than an MX5 which just drives it into the ground. That is what the Lotus badge is all about. They would sweep the decks.
You can take an exclusive brand downmarket but you absolutely cannot take a mass brand upmarket. All this competition with Porsche is just foolish. They are ignoring the larger money rich enthusiast market to chase customers who just don't get Lotus. It is nuts. Lotus customers want to slip into a brilliant lightweight chassis with a glassfibre body. The badge is emotive. They know about Clark Hill Rindt and Fittipaldi and the rest. Aston customers think those are makes of wristwatch. Porsche customers most of them don't want to know about cornering and agility they want exclusive metal in their parking spot.
Time to get a grip.
That is what Lotus needs to do now. Mazda have made a fortune ripping off a sixties Chapman design. They need to get into bed with a big boy and produce a two seater for the mass market a few grand dearer than an MX5 which just drives it into the ground. That is what the Lotus badge is all about. They would sweep the decks.
You can take an exclusive brand downmarket but you absolutely cannot take a mass brand upmarket. All this competition with Porsche is just foolish. They are ignoring the larger money rich enthusiast market to chase customers who just don't get Lotus. It is nuts. Lotus customers want to slip into a brilliant lightweight chassis with a glassfibre body. The badge is emotive. They know about Clark Hill Rindt and Fittipaldi and the rest. Aston customers think those are makes of wristwatch. Porsche customers most of them don't want to know about cornering and agility they want exclusive metal in their parking spot.
Time to get a grip.
Edited by cardigankid on Friday 3rd February 20:59
cardigankid said:
Lotus is not an upmarket brand. Look what Colin Chapman designed - the Seven the Elite the Elan. He used cheap and lightweight technology to produce real sports cars for those on a budget which made the big boys look stupid. He borrowed engines and made silk purses out of pigs ears.
That is what Lotus needs to do now. Mazda have made a fortune ripping off a sixties Chapman design. They need to get into bed with a big boy and produce a two seater for the mass market a few grand dearer than an MX5 which just drives it into the ground. That is what the Lotus badge is all about. They would sweep the decks.
You can take an exclusive brand downmarket but you absolutely cannot take a mass brand upmarket. All this competition with Porsche is just foolish. They are ignoring the larger money rich enthusiast market to chase customers who just don't get Lotus. It is nuts. Lotus customers want to slip into a brilliant lightweight chassis with a glassfibre body. The badge is emotive. They know about Clark Hill Rindt and Fittipaldi and the rest. Aston customers think those are makes of wristwatch. Porsche customers most of them don't want to know about cornering and agility they want exclusive metal in their parking spot.
Time to get a grip.
Wow, well written and fully agree with all this! Nice one. Maybe they should have done a 2 seater car with Proton to compete with the MX5. That is what Lotus needs to do now. Mazda have made a fortune ripping off a sixties Chapman design. They need to get into bed with a big boy and produce a two seater for the mass market a few grand dearer than an MX5 which just drives it into the ground. That is what the Lotus badge is all about. They would sweep the decks.
You can take an exclusive brand downmarket but you absolutely cannot take a mass brand upmarket. All this competition with Porsche is just foolish. They are ignoring the larger money rich enthusiast market to chase customers who just don't get Lotus. It is nuts. Lotus customers want to slip into a brilliant lightweight chassis with a glassfibre body. The badge is emotive. They know about Clark Hill Rindt and Fittipaldi and the rest. Aston customers think those are makes of wristwatch. Porsche customers most of them don't want to know about cornering and agility they want exclusive metal in their parking spot.
Time to get a grip.
Edited by cardigankid on Friday 3rd February 20:59
cardigankid said:
Lotus is not an upmarket brand. Look what Colin Chapman designed - the Seven the Elite the Elan. He used cheap and lightweight technology to produce real sports cars for those on a budget which made the big boys look stupid. He borrowed engines and made silk purses out of pigs ears.
That is what Lotus needs to do now. Mazda have made a fortune ripping off a sixties Chapman design. They need to get into bed with a big boy and produce a two seater for the mass market a few grand dearer than an MX5 which just drives it into the ground. That is what the Lotus badge is all about. They would sweep the decks.
You can take an exclusive brand downmarket but you absolutely cannot take a mass brand upmarket. All this competition with Porsche is just foolish. They are ignoring the larger money rich enthusiast market to chase customers who just don't get Lotus. It is nuts. Lotus customers want to slip into a brilliant lightweight chassis with a glassfibre body. The badge is emotive. They know about Clark Hill Rindt and Fittipaldi and the rest. Aston customers think those are makes of wristwatch. Porsche customers most of them don't want to know about cornering and agility they want exclusive metal in their parking spot.
Time to get a grip.
BMW used to make bubblecars so a brand and company can evolve. I suspect the Esprit will be the litmus test....That is what Lotus needs to do now. Mazda have made a fortune ripping off a sixties Chapman design. They need to get into bed with a big boy and produce a two seater for the mass market a few grand dearer than an MX5 which just drives it into the ground. That is what the Lotus badge is all about. They would sweep the decks.
You can take an exclusive brand downmarket but you absolutely cannot take a mass brand upmarket. All this competition with Porsche is just foolish. They are ignoring the larger money rich enthusiast market to chase customers who just don't get Lotus. It is nuts. Lotus customers want to slip into a brilliant lightweight chassis with a glassfibre body. The badge is emotive. They know about Clark Hill Rindt and Fittipaldi and the rest. Aston customers think those are makes of wristwatch. Porsche customers most of them don't want to know about cornering and agility they want exclusive metal in their parking spot.
Time to get a grip.
Edited by cardigankid on Friday 3rd February 20:59
I think there's a ceiling price (as was mentioned earlier) for the current Evora of around 55k based on perceived value/engine/gearbox/build - and I'd be happy with an S at that price (would work for me) but any higher and 991s/R8s/GT-Rs beckon...
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