RE: Ringside Seat: is the 'ring relevant?
Discussion
Dale,
May I commend you on your story but please get a grip on reality.
"Twice last year I was nearly run clean off the road by suicidal 'scoop' photographers hanging from the passenger windows of cheap rentals taking to the pavements to try and catch a better shot of the GT 86 mule running between the track and workshop."
It was only unloaded the day before the VLN and the pictures was taken without any speeding or chasing in the streets.
I hasten to add that all cars arriving at the industry pool driving tend to drive past the complex and end up on the ring, so your dramatisation of paparazzi chasing the royal family isnt the case as you tend to know where they are heading.
Also I hasten to add I drove round the ring in a BMW M5 and a Range Rover Sport taking these pictures.
So your stereotype of spy shooters driving cheap rentals, which in reality a rental is a brand new car is pretty unfounded.
So Before you devalue a trade you have tried to emulate think about the position your in where all your content is on the back of somebody elses subsidy.
May I commend you on your story but please get a grip on reality.
"Twice last year I was nearly run clean off the road by suicidal 'scoop' photographers hanging from the passenger windows of cheap rentals taking to the pavements to try and catch a better shot of the GT 86 mule running between the track and workshop."
It was only unloaded the day before the VLN and the pictures was taken without any speeding or chasing in the streets.
I hasten to add that all cars arriving at the industry pool driving tend to drive past the complex and end up on the ring, so your dramatisation of paparazzi chasing the royal family isnt the case as you tend to know where they are heading.
Also I hasten to add I drove round the ring in a BMW M5 and a Range Rover Sport taking these pictures.
So your stereotype of spy shooters driving cheap rentals, which in reality a rental is a brand new car is pretty unfounded.
So Before you devalue a trade you have tried to emulate think about the position your in where all your content is on the back of somebody elses subsidy.
Scottie - NW said:
Depends what you call expensive.
A stainless silenced decat is £145 delivered, or £220 for a brand new 2 year warranty Cat.
A dying cat can be because the plugs or coils have not been changed when they should be.
Yeah I think the cat on one of the cars became coked up from a failed coil or plug and the owner didn't realise. A stainless silenced decat is £145 delivered, or £220 for a brand new 2 year warranty Cat.
A dying cat can be because the plugs or coils have not been changed when they should be.
I suppose I am a bit put off from having little understanding of how the rotary works - also I like throttle bodies
The MT's are a killer, as well as sounding like a plane flying overhead constantly. Manual hubs do help.scubadude said:
marcosgt said:
That was 7 litres (2 x 5 plus a free 1 litre with each) - I've JUST broken into the second 1 litre pack and both 5 litre packs are still sealed.
I think we might have found why RX-8 owners think the cars are reasonable to run with maths like this... :-)My brother had an RX8 for 2 years, it was faultless mechanically and great to drive on road and track but the fuel bills really took the shine off the ownership experience for him.
To put it in perspective, I had a modified Subaru WRX at the time which despite being heavier, less aerodynamic, 4wd and far more powerful, consistently returned far better MPG than the RX8.
Performance cars are never going to be cheap to run though, and for someone that doesn't do huge annual mileage and RX8 is fantastic value now.
Excellent article and finally someone can see beyond the blubber that Toyota have created around this delayed and outdated machine.
Tada and his Toyota pals are likely to be quiet about the 'Ring time for the 86, cos it's probably a little embarrasing for them to own up how off the pace it is..I've enjoyed every visit to the 'Ring and there is a clear reason it is used by so many to test their finest sporting metal.
At first many PHers seemed wary of CH, given his obvious love of all things Porsche, but his newly acquired love of the 86, has put those doubters firmly up his a!!e...strange that
They are all finding it hard to justify the £25k that Toyota are stealing over the £3k that it takes to buy a reasonable RX8...because its still a modern, safe and useable car.. it will take a lot of tanks of fuel and cans of oil to make up the £22k saving
Tada and his Toyota pals are likely to be quiet about the 'Ring time for the 86, cos it's probably a little embarrasing for them to own up how off the pace it is..I've enjoyed every visit to the 'Ring and there is a clear reason it is used by so many to test their finest sporting metal.
At first many PHers seemed wary of CH, given his obvious love of all things Porsche, but his newly acquired love of the 86, has put those doubters firmly up his a!!e...strange that
They are all finding it hard to justify the £25k that Toyota are stealing over the £3k that it takes to buy a reasonable RX8...because its still a modern, safe and useable car.. it will take a lot of tanks of fuel and cans of oil to make up the £22k saving
rajkohli81 said:
They are all finding it hard to justify the £25k that Toyota are stealing over the £3k that it takes to buy a reasonable RX8...because its still a modern, safe and useable car.. it will take a lot of tanks of fuel and cans of oil to make up the £22k saving
Still haven't got the hang of New v Used have you.You need to ask why an RX8 that was sold for the same sort of money as a Toyota can now be had for less than 3K.
I think what the author (Dale Lomasis) trying to say in a politically correct way, is Chris Harris and others where the heck have you been? You show up to the toyota track panting and shouting like you've just found the fountain of youth; when you could have been excited about products out right now. j
Fittster said:
rajkohli81 said:
They are all finding it hard to justify the £25k that Toyota are stealing over the £3k that it takes to buy a reasonable RX8...because its still a modern, safe and useable car.. it will take a lot of tanks of fuel and cans of oil to make up the £22k saving
Still haven't got the hang of New v Used have you.You need to ask why an RX8 that was sold for the same sort of money as a Toyota can now be had for less than 3K.
I'm very confident this car won't sell as well as Toyota hope and will be a big depreciator as even future used demand will be limited to the misguided few.
rajkohli81 said:
I recall the RX-8 being better value for money, given the breadth of its appeal and standard spec list. I am simply using a 9 year old Mazda to show how outdated the 86 is. I am well versed in new vs old comparison futility and the RX-8s achilles heel(s)
I'm very confident this car won't sell as well as Toyota hope and will be a big depreciator as even future used demand will be limited to the misguided few.
In what way is the 86 outdated? Emissions, safety, ecomonmy, reliability?I'm very confident this car won't sell as well as Toyota hope and will be a big depreciator as even future used demand will be limited to the misguided few.
The value that the market has determine for a used RX8 doesn't seem to show it has the right blend of qualities to attract people looking for a coupe.
Fittster said:
rajkohli81 said:
I recall the RX-8 being better value for money, given the breadth of its appeal and standard spec list. I am simply using a 9 year old Mazda to show how outdated the 86 is. I am well versed in new vs old comparison futility and the RX-8s achilles heel(s)
I'm very confident this car won't sell as well as Toyota hope and will be a big depreciator as even future used demand will be limited to the misguided few.
In what way is the 86 outdated? Emissions, safety, ecomonmy, reliability?I'm very confident this car won't sell as well as Toyota hope and will be a big depreciator as even future used demand will be limited to the misguided few.
The value that the market has determine for a used RX8 doesn't seem to show it has the right blend of qualities to attract people looking for a coupe.
...and I understand the argument on safety features and their successive weight, so 13 years on BMW can produce a heavy weight like the 328i which will undoubtedly be even more loaded with safety tech than the 86 and weighs in at 1430kg, but pushes out only 147 carbs, hits 60 in 5.7 and despite its incredible 242 bhp, still returns 45mpg...surely a much lighter Toyota with less power should have much better economy and emissions?
Edited by rajkohli81 on Friday 10th February 18:54
Edited by rajkohli81 on Friday 10th February 18:55
"If a lap time was totally irrelevant to the GT 86 why would Toyota have been entering the car in the VLN races last year? Why did it test the prototype here for two years?"
Perhaps the same reason they used the LFA in the VLN races. It's also a reason why BMW, Jaguar, and Mercedes use the Nurburgring: to help speed up development time. The 'Ring is used by all of these manufacturers for reasons of durability, feel, ride quality, etc. It's not just about lap times. I also read somewhere that Toyota are hoping to supply privateer teams later on with GT-86s prepped for the VLN races (not for free, naturally)
Dale, you'd like to know if the GT-86 is faster than the RX-8. Frankly, I'm more interested to know how the two compare in terms of driving dynamics.
Perhaps the same reason they used the LFA in the VLN races. It's also a reason why BMW, Jaguar, and Mercedes use the Nurburgring: to help speed up development time. The 'Ring is used by all of these manufacturers for reasons of durability, feel, ride quality, etc. It's not just about lap times. I also read somewhere that Toyota are hoping to supply privateer teams later on with GT-86s prepped for the VLN races (not for free, naturally
)Dale, you'd like to know if the GT-86 is faster than the RX-8. Frankly, I'm more interested to know how the two compare in terms of driving dynamics.
Article said:
"That's about the same time Toyota abandoned its awesome AE86 Corolla, by the way."
Since when has the AE86 been an awesome car? I'm sure we are looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. I'm not old enough to remember the AE86 as a new car, but I have read enough car magazines from that period and have enough overall knowledge to know that it might have been a OK car, but great? However, since the build up to the launch of the GT86, it seems to have become an awesome car.
"That's about the same time Toyota abandoned its awesome AE86 Corolla, by the way."
Since when has the AE86 been an awesome car? I'm sure we are looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. I'm not old enough to remember the AE86 as a new car, but I have read enough car magazines from that period and have enough overall knowledge to know that it might have been a OK car, but great? However, since the build up to the launch of the GT86, it seems to have become an awesome car.
Munich said:
Article said:
"That's about the same time Toyota abandoned its awesome AE86 Corolla, by the way."
Since when has the AE86 been an awesome car? I'm sure we are looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. I'm not old enough to remember the AE86 as a new car, but I have read enough car magazines from that period and have enough overall knowledge to know that it might have been a OK car, but great? However, since the build up to the launch of the GT86, it seems to have become an awesome car.
It's been an awesome car for many years. The Drift king was hooning the hoonery out of his since the 90's I believe. "That's about the same time Toyota abandoned its awesome AE86 Corolla, by the way."
Since when has the AE86 been an awesome car? I'm sure we are looking back at it with rose tinted glasses. I'm not old enough to remember the AE86 as a new car, but I have read enough car magazines from that period and have enough overall knowledge to know that it might have been a OK car, but great? However, since the build up to the launch of the GT86, it seems to have become an awesome car.
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