RE: Ringside Seat: is the 'ring relevant?

[errek72]

Nothing. It answers the question raised in the article title. The ring has no relevance with regards to the issues raised.

[Fastdruid]

prodrive0191 said:

I owned an RX8 , biggest mistake ever. They are claustrophobic to drive

Out of all your negatives that is the only one that is valid (its low and the angle of the windscreen/sides does make it a touch close) and yet also the only one I really don't get. Surely you drove the car before you bought it, sat in it even? You knew what it was like, bought it anyway and then grumble. I find it hard to believe that the MR2 is larger inside, although I've not been in one so can't comment.

prodrive0191 said:

drink oil ( they even recommend you carry some with you )

No more than any other performance car and indeed better than a number, the difference is that its by design.

prodrive0191 said:

and fuel ... I never bettered 19 mpg.

And? We've just got a Mazda6 MPS as a sensible family car (with a bit of fun still) to replace the RX-8. The RX-8 was getting around 17mpg (measured, no Fuel Computer on them). The MPS is currently getting 18 (Fuel computer so probably optimistic) and that takes 98 rather than 95! It has all of 29 more HP but ~300Kg to match (although as a 2.3t it has a lot more torque).

Amazingly that pretty much matches what the differences between the claimed figures are. Which is why I do not get peoples grumbles about the RX-8 and mpg **after** buying them. Did you not research the car before buying it? Does it or does it not have a claimed mpg of 18 urban? People are then surprised when *shock* *horror* it gets 16-18mpg. The 2l S2000 which has a very very similar power output makes ooooh all of 20mpg, 2mpg better but a lighter car.

If mpg is your concern get a small diesel and forever try and convince everyone that diesels are far better, you wanted one anyway and you didn't just do it because of the economy.

prodrive0191 said:

I'll never know why Mazda continued to throw money at that car / engine .

Because nothing else has the same power to weight and physical small size as the rotary. That affects everything about the car, it allows it to be effectively a mid-engined car while still being front engined (which lowers the polar moment and allows it to turn faster). Being front engined also allows it to be a real 4 seater (rather than the useless 2+2 which only work if your passengers have no legs). It allows it to run softer more compliant suspension as the lower CoG of the tiny low engine means it has less roll. It allows the car to be low as modern cars suffer from pedestrian impact requirements where they need large gaps between cylinder heads and the bonnet, this raises the bonnet which in turn means the driver has to be raised to see over it and before you know it you end up with a MPV. It also allows a large gap between bumper and engine which helps with crash protection.

If driving feel of a car is what you want then there really is very little to touch the RX-8 and if you want 4 (usable) seats the choice is even more limited.

Back on topic IMO the GT86 sits in the same kind of niche as the MX-5, designed not to be the fastest or the baddest but purposely limited with the intention of being Fun. I hope it succeeds.

[velocgee]

Fastdruid said:

Which is why I do not get peoples grumbles about the RX-8 and mpg **after** buying them. Did you not research the car before buying it? Does it or does it not have a claimed mpg of 18 urban? People are then surprised when *shock* *horror* it gets 16-18mpg.

i'm one of those, then....i didn't expect to mpg to be so bad, all of the time. i would love to meet those who 'claim' to achieve 27mpg+ on the motorways, cos i usually only got 23mpg and only once (in 5yrs ownership)got 25mpg

Fastdruid said:

If mpg is your concern get a small diesel and forever try and convince everyone that diesels are far better, you wanted one anyway and you didn't just do it because of the economy..

haha..but methinks you've missed the point. The RX8 - as said before - is just not powerful enough to justify such attrocious fuel economy. I've convoyed with a number of quick machinery over the years (Boxster S', M3s', etc) and the RX8 was at least 25% worse on fuel. yes, it is a significantly cheaper car, but then it does lack the 'kudos' of the others ie no matter good the market wouldn't accept it being priced similar to the germanic brands (it is a Mazda, after all.....)

anyhow, i think the RX8 is a great car....i wish i still had mine now.

[Gompo]

Fastdruid said:

The 2l S2000 which has a very very similar power output makes ooooh all of 20mpg, 2mpg better but a lighter car.

Is this first hand experience? Very surprised they'd be that low. Mid 20s+ on average surely?

[Fastdruid]

Claimed figures for it. No personal experience but its very rare for cars to exceed their claimed mpg.

[Gompo]

Fastdruid said:

Claimed figures for it. No personal experience but its very rare for cars to exceed their claimed mpg.

I just had a look on the MPG Wiki on here, owners seem to average around 27 or so. I initially asked as my 1.8 VTEC averages about 30mpg when running properly - driving style dependant of course!

[Fastdruid]

Surely that's 'mixed'? I was comparing 'urban'.

What's the RX-8 getting on the same wiki?

[Gompo]

My quoted 'average of around 27' was a mixture of the 'Local' and 'Distance' measures, so no not urban figures.. The average for the 'Local' is 23.5.

You can see it here anyway. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Only one RX-8 listed, 'Local' being 20mpg.

[Fastdruid]

Are these people driving like my gran?

26 mpg out of the 6 MPS
20 mpg out of the RX-8

Both substantially better than claimed urban and better than we've got out of them round town I just can't see that being right.

However, assuming all the figures *are* correct (or at least out by the same amount) the rotary is not the worst on a mpg/bhp basis. Of all the cars in the 200-250hp range you get this selection going from best to worst. Don't get me wrong, its not good but from all the neigh sayers you'd have assumed it was the worst car ever and far worse than any other car.

1 BMW 123d
2 BMW 330d Saloon
3 Mercedes E320 CDI(W211 model)
4 BMW 330d Coupe
5 BMW 330d Saloon
6 BMW 330d Touring
7 Skoda Octavia vRS Estate
8 Mercedes E250 CDI(W212 model)
9 Mercedes C320 cdi
10 Audi A5 Sport
11 Jaguar S Type Sport
12 Saab 9-3 Conv
13 Skoda Octavia vRS
14 Audi TT
15 Audi A4 3.0TDi Sline Cabriolet
16 Audi A6
17 Lexus IS 300SPORTCROSS
18 Honda Accord
19 Audi S3
20 VW Golf V6 4motion
21 Ford Focus RS
22 Seat Leon
23 Audi S3
24 Peugeot 406 Executive
25 Seat Leon 20vt + Map
26 Audi S3
27 Lotus Elise S2 Honda
28 BMW Z4 3.0 Roadster
29 Seat Leon 20vt + remap
30 VW Corrado VR6
31 Volvo V70 T5
32 Land Rover Discovery TD5 (JE Stage2)
33 Lotus Europa S
34 Saab 9000 LPT w/Stage 1 Remap
35 BMW Z4 3.0 Roadster
36 Renault Megane 225 Trophy
37 Mitsubishi FTO GPX
38 Alfa Romeo Spider JTDm
39 BMW 330i Coupe
40 Fiat Coupe
41 Ford Mondeo ST220
42 Seat Leon Cupra R 225
43 Ford Focus ST3
44 Ford Mondeo ST200
45 Honda S2000
46 Ford Mondeo ST220
47 Lotus Esprit
48 Ford Focus ST2
49 Porsche 911 SC
50 Mercedes 190E
51 Jaguar S Type
52 Audi A6 Quattro Avant sport
53 Honda S2000
54 Vauxhall Astra VXR
55 BMW 330i Coupe
56 Honda S2000
57 Porsche 968 Coupe
58 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 24V
59 Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE (chipped)
60 VW Phaeton V6
61 Jaguar S Type
62 Triumph TR7 V8
63 BMW 330i Sport Saloon
64 Ford Mondeo ST200
65 Jaguar X Type Saloon
66 Honda Legend
67 Saab 95 Aero Wagon
68 Mazda RX-8 230
69 Renault Espace (Grande)
70 Cadillac STS
71 Jaguar XJ6
72 Vauxhall Signum
73 TVR Chimaera 400
74 BMW 530i Sport Auto
75 BMW 535i
76 Honda S2000
77 Sunbeam Tiger Mk.1
78 Subaru Legacy Sports Tourer
79 Subaru Impreza WRX
80 Volvo C70 T5
81 Subaru Legacy Sports Tourer
82 Volvo 850 T5
83 Alfa Romeo 166 v6 24v
84 Saab 95 Aero Estate

It gets worse at 'Distance' mpg but still isn't the worst.

1 BMW 330d Saloon
2 Mercedes E250 CDI(W212 model)
3 Mercedes C320 cdi
4 BMW 123d
5 Mercedes E320 CDI(W211 model)
6 BMW 330d Coupe
7 Audi A6
8 BMW 330d Saloon
9 Skoda Octavia vRS Estate
10 BMW 330d Touring
11 Skoda Octavia vRS
12 Saab 9-3 Conv
13 Audi TT
14 Audi A5 Sport
15 VW Golf V6 4motion
16 Jaguar S Type Sport
17 Lexus IS 300SPORTCROSS
18 Seat Leon 20vt + Map
19 Vauxhall Astra VXR
20 BMW Z4 3.0 Roadster
21 BMW 330i Coupe
22 BMW 330i Sport Saloon
23 Audi A4 3.0TDi Sline Cabriolet
24 Audi S3
25 Peugeot 406 Executive
26 Seat Leon
27 Lotus Europa S
28 Ford Mondeo ST200
29 Lotus Elise S2 Honda
30 Jaguar X Type Saloon
31 Ford Mondeo ST200
32 Saab 9000 LPT w/Stage 1 Remap
33 BMW Z4 3.0 Roadster
34 Ford Focus RS
35 Fiat Coupe
36 Ford Mondeo ST220
37 Saab 95 Aero Estate
38 Seat Leon 20vt + remap
39 Honda Accord
40 VW Corrado VR6
41 Audi S3
42 Volvo V70 T5
43 Mitsubishi FTO GPX
44 Ford Focus ST2
45 Honda S2000
46 Audi S3
47 BMW 530i Sport Auto
48 Renault Megane 225 Trophy
49 Volvo 850 T5
50 Ford Focus ST3
51 Saab 95 Aero Wagon
52 Honda Legend
53 Jaguar S Type
54 Porsche 911 SC
55 Mercedes 190E
56 Jaguar S Type
57 Ford Mondeo ST220
58 Alfa Romeo Spider JTDm
59 Volvo C70 T5
60 Seat Leon Cupra R 225
61 Lotus Esprit
62 Cadillac STS
63 Vauxhall Signum
64 BMW 330i Coupe
65 TVR Chimaera 400
66 Alfa Romeo GTV V6 24V
67 Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE (chipped)
68 Land Rover Discovery TD5 (JE Stage2)
69 VW Phaeton V6
70 Jaguar XJ6
71 Audi A6 Quattro Avant sport
72 Honda S2000
73 Honda S2000
74 Porsche 968 Coupe
75 Mazda RX-8 230
76 BMW 535i
77 Renault Espace (Grande)
78 Alfa Romeo 166 v6 24v
79 Triumph TR7 V8
80 Subaru Legacy Sports Tourer
81 Honda S2000
82 Subaru Legacy Sports Tourer
83 Subaru Impreza WRX
84 Sunbeam Tiger Mk.1