Bring back ride quality!!
Discussion
versus said:
MC Bodge said:
Are you Gok Wan?
Haha. I have seen some cars which look so frumpy and boring with the standard wheels. As soon you upgrade the wheels to 18" or above 5 spoke alloys the car looks amazing. Its like the difference between wearing a suit with running trainers or with proper shoes.I thank you
Vladimir said:
What wheels?
Mines and SE with M Sport suspension but 17" wheels on non run flats. Uber comfy but still grip well.
Mines and SE with M Sport suspension but 17" wheels on non run flats. Uber comfy but still grip well.
On 19 inch star alloys with bridgestone runflats of course!
I left the 17 inch wheels on which I bought for my winter tyres when I ran it but when it came to resale time all the potential buyers wanted it on the 19s....more fool them
Some early E60 BMW's used 16" wheels with non-run flat tyres as standard equipment (always wondered if they had different suspension given BMW's insistence that you can't put standard tyres on cars with run flats??) and the ride was way better. Don't remember the handling being that affected.
pointedstarman said:
Some early E60 BMW's used 16" wheels with non-run flat tyres as standard equipment (always wondered if they had different suspension given BMW's insistence that you can't put standard tyres on cars with run flats??) and the ride was way better. Don't remember the handling being that affected.
I had an E60 demo car for a month with 16" Dunlop Run-Flats and the ride and handling balance was marvellous, better than the 17s I had on my own E60 - and miles better than an MSport on 19s. When I see an older 5 series E34 on 15s or 16s, I can imagine it is wonderful.There are some cars that should be comfortable Tourers, but even those are ruined by big wheels. Every Citroen C6 I see (well, one a year) is on 18s, and Laguna Coupes are spoilt by big rims. They are the sort of effortless French cars that need 15s...
Edited by Redlake27 on Wednesday 15th February 17:47
versus said:
Its true though. Running trainers are so comfortable but they look totally out of place on a posh suit. Equally, 16" wheels or smaller are probably very comfortable but look inappropriate on a posh/sporty/prestigious car.
We clearly come from different motoring Worlds. Ask any Caterham racer what they fit - 13" alloys not the showier 15" version.
Look at motorsport - which use MASSIVE wheels?
A lot of sportyish cars (mine included) need 17" as a minimum or the brakes won't fit but any bigger isn't needed.
It's a very strange trend and I wonder when it will stop - when wheels actually meet in the middle of the car?
Mid range saloons often sport 19" or larger alloys. I've even seen two Defender with 20s. Oh very dear.
Massive alloys to me just say "thinks he's sporty but isn't" - more like a bloke in a tracksuit and trainers that's actually a bit lardy.
However your suit/trainer analogy does not work.
versus said:
Its true though. Running trainers are so comfortable but they look totally out of place on a posh suit. Equally, 16" wheels or smaller are probably very comfortable but look inappropriate on a posh/sporty/prestigious car.
^^ Right someone tell VAG/BMW/MB, they can stop spending money on marketing, Britain is officially brainwashed.OK but manufacturers look to the 'underground' modification/tuner market for ideas and that market happen to like big alloys. The Jaguar XKR (1996–2006) had huge alloys, I think they were like 20" or something and that car came out in the 90s. The Audi S8 had massive alloys as well.
So joe public think bigger alloys means a meaner/sportier/prestigious car. LEDs lights are doing the same thing. Blinging everything up to stand out on the roads.
So joe public think bigger alloys means a meaner/sportier/prestigious car. LEDs lights are doing the same thing. Blinging everything up to stand out on the roads.
When I got the current MX5, a UK Mk1, it had some 15s on which actually did look fairly nice, in fairness. However, I decided in the interests of making it a better drive, to put the original 14" wheels back on (sans covers), and I weighed both sets of wheels. The 14s were 4 kg lighter each, and the difference is certainly very noticeable. It has pretty much improved every aspect of the drive, just a shame it arguably doesn't look as good.
In the Science museum there is a 1959 Mini chopped down the spine so you can marvel at its packaging.
The secret of this tiny car's space is clear to see. Tiny 10 inch wheels.
It also happened to be one of the best handling cars ever.
I'm glad Issigonis never lived to see the modern Mini. It is cramped, rides badly and is heavy. And you can get it with 19" wheels as an option. Imagine the modern Mini with less intrusive wheelarches, and say, 155/60R13 tyres.
It would be roomier, lighter, more comfortable and probably handle better.
And be a Mini.
The secret of this tiny car's space is clear to see. Tiny 10 inch wheels.
It also happened to be one of the best handling cars ever.
I'm glad Issigonis never lived to see the modern Mini. It is cramped, rides badly and is heavy. And you can get it with 19" wheels as an option. Imagine the modern Mini with less intrusive wheelarches, and say, 155/60R13 tyres.
It would be roomier, lighter, more comfortable and probably handle better.
And be a Mini.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I haven't read all 9 pages of the thread. I agree for the most part, the ride on my mate's Seat Altea FR is ridiculously firm to the extent that it makes me nauseus and would completely put me off buying one. And all this in a family MPV! However, another mate's Focus ST on 18s and my Impreza WRX on 17s ride acceptably well for that kind of car. I seem to remember reading that in order to reduce costs, manufacturers are fitting cheaper suspension components (springs and the like), as things you can't see (like suspension) don't sell cars whereas visual aspects such as posh alloys do. My wife's 1.2 Fiat 500 on 14" steels and high profile rubber has an appalling ride to the point where you have to back right off on bumpy roads whereas I remember no such problems in my mum's Fiat Cinquecento Sporting on 13" alloy wheels on low profile rubber. I would suggest that the wheels aren't the problem in this case. Big alloys, low profile tyres and runflats certainly exacerbate the problem but there must be more fundamental reasons behind the deterioration in ride quality as well.
heebeegeetee said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
here's something for the old boys in here who cant handle a sporty ride to reminisce about whilst you remember a time when your hemorrhoids wernt giving you jip
It's not about handling a sporty ride, it's knowing a sporty ride. Chav suspension does not a sporty ride make, in fact it can be very slow.
Proper suspension and really good and proper handling on a road car is really quite rare, but some of us here continue to seek the holy grail.
heebeegeetee said:
It's not about handling a sporty ride, it's knowing a sporty ride. Chav suspension does not a sporty ride make, in fact it can be very slow.
Proper suspension and really good and proper handling on a road car is really quite rare, but some of us here continue to seek the holy grail.
Agree. So where can we find the holy grail?Proper suspension and really good and proper handling on a road car is really quite rare, but some of us here continue to seek the holy grail.
Reading this thread, it seems like old barges and Range Rovers can give us the ride, but not the handling. And German cars with big rims are a no-go.
I'd like to list recent cars I've driven that come close to the holy grail of supple ride and great handling:
Ford Focus on 16s
Ford Mondeo on 16s
Jaguar XF on 18s
BMW E60 on 16s or 17s
BMW E90 on 16s
Lotus Elise
Lotus Evora
Porsche Cayman on 17s
Below are the recent cars I've driven where the manufacturer hasn't even given any consideration to the existence of a holy grail
Audi A3
Audi A4
Megane (standard not RenaultSport)
BMW 1 series on 18s
Mercedes B Class
Mercedes A Class
There are others I've driven that are good, (Alfa 159, for example, has an excellent ride on small wheels but isn't in the top league for handling sharpness), but from the many cars I drive, they are the ones that stand out.
I do remember a B-road blast in a then-new Peugeot 405 Mi16. For a mass market car it was close to perfection. It wasn't just the ride and handling from the exquisite damping, it had fine steering too. Since then, only Fords and un-blinged BMWs have given me the same feeling.
Redlake27 said:
I'd like to list recent cars I've driven that come close to the holy grail of supple ride and great handling:
....Ford Mondeo on 16s....
It's certainly no sports car, but it is very good for the large size of the thing. I would say that the ride is marginally too firm for absolute comfort, but if it was softer then the currently excellent steering and body control would possibly suffer. ....Ford Mondeo on 16s....
Even at 16", the rims are hardly small and the tyres are hardly 'tall' either.
Of course, not all is good: I do have to suffer the shame of having visible sidewalls. I also have a gap between the top of the tyres and the wheel arches as I don't have 'sports' suspension, so young men with no technical knowledge will give me no "respect".
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 16th February 08:27
The Lotus Evora is my personal benchmark for ride and handling. It's handling is sublime and it's ride is exceptional. It's not particularly light either. So it CAN be done. Cars that don't do both (my current Cayman included) frustrate me. There's no reason for them to be that hard. Our roads are f
ked and they're just not suited to them.
ked and they're just not suited to them.
Coming home from Oxford last night with the family on board, Had to take a back road route for the last section across the new forest, as the A31 to Bournemouth was shut. My passat is normally like the Qe2 if you gun it on fast wide smooth roads, but across a couple of sub B Road wickedly surfaced minor roads, it was awesome!! Just flew over all the bumps, pot holes,road repairs and yumps.....again proving the point that ride quality is important for making progress on UK back roads...
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