Bring back ride quality!!

[dan98]

Ah so indeed it is actually faster now, not just my imagination.
And since being in Germany I've noticed it zooms right across cobbled streets and around tramlines whereas before it would slide around all over the place.
I do wish I could sort that damn uber-light steering out though, it's clearly rather taken aback by the whole thing.

[LeoSayer]

dan98 said:

On another note, anyone who previously mentioned the dodgy ride in A3/A4s tried the new A3 ? Does it still feel a bit 'wrong' on UK roads in SE spec? All my local dealers only stock the Sport versions.

Well I've got the new A3 in Sport trim but with the SE suspension, which is no-cost option.

It feels perfect for UK roads.

Loads of compliance on bumpy roads, potholes and speed humps but not too soft that it falls apart on the twisties.

Of course, it's not really a fun handling car, but the A3 has never really been that regardless of how stiff the suspension is or has been in previous versions.

[dan98]

Ah great to hear! I really fancy the new A3, and that bodes well.
But to put it in context may I ask , did you drive the previous version in SE form? Can you make a comparison?

(edit)-the reason I ask is, as mentioned before, I found the old version jiggly, bouncy and just plain wrong (bobbing up and down at every imperfection in the road etc) Whereas many don't seem bothered by it.

Edited by dan98 on Monday 26th January 12:38

[IceBoy]

Bonefish Blues said:

45 sections? Bit racy there old chap

LOL hahahahaha....I'll get my slippers!
IceBoy

[RedAlfa]

My Alfa has quite a firm ride, and it doesn't suit Britain's roads. It's all very good setting lap times and impressing the motoring journalists, but that isn't reality for most of us!

I don't care for low profile tyres or big wheels ...... IMHO their function is MUCH more important than their form. I think the current trend of massive alloys is bordering on the grotesque.

Give me the ride quality of a W124 over the sporty rubbish any day :-)

Edited by RedAlfa on Monday 26th January 13:40

[Bonefish Blues]

IceBoy said:

Bonefish Blues said:

45 sections? Bit racy there old chap

LOL hahahahaha....I'll get my slippers!
IceBoy

Put it this way, I'm on 60s and Mrs BFB's on 65s, so you tearaways on your 45s represent something of a concern for us

[Swanny87]

dan98 said:

Ah great to hear! I really fancy the new A3, and that bodes well.
But to put it in context may I ask , did you drive the previous version in SE form? Can you make a comparison?

(edit)-the reason I ask is, as mentioned before, I found the old version jiggly, bouncy and just plain wrong (bobbing up and down at every imperfection in the road etc) Whereas many don't seem bothered by it.

Edited by dan98 on Monday 26th January 12:38

+1 for that, the old A3 was the worst riding car I'd ever been in. Almost made your bones turn into dust.

[RicksAlfas]

OldGermanHeaps said:

It pisses me off that in order to get the nice seats and a 3 spoke steering wheel on the germans you need to ruin the car with stupid low profile tyres and ridiculous suspension.

You can order an SE with sports seats and steering wheel. Or, an M-Sport with SE suspension.

[Ali_T]

Going hand in hand with the degradation in ride quality is the obsession over body roll. People, many journos included, seem to equate body roll with poor handling. I originally bought my Alfa with the intention of replacing the springs and dampers because that's the part that was criticised the most in reviews. But the more I drive it, the less inclined I feel to change anything. It has great ride quality and great handling balance. Plenty of grip and the (not actually that extreme at all) body roll helps to telegraph when you're reaching the limits. I might gain a fraction of a second on a lap time by cornering flatter, but I'd ruin what is a really great road car by doing so, and I would be far less able to tell where the adhesion levels were running out. Body roll is actually a useful thing in a chassis for mere mortals as long as it's not 2CV/renault 4 levels of door handle scraping. It might limit your abilities to quickly change direction in a chicane or make you a little slower round the Nurburgring but, you know what? I don't care!

[hahithestevieboy]

I had an S1 elise 160 the ride on that was actually lovely but people thought that it was uncomfortable because every time you hit a bump there was a loud bang in the cabin. It was only really when stepping into another car (usually as passenger) that you realised that the ride in isolation to everything else was actually way better than alot of other cars.

I have a Jax (X350) XJR on 19's and I reckon that I have never been in a better riding car (cant remmeber the ride in my dad's old rover SD1 and later Granada). It is noticable that the ride does get better above 30 or 40 mph though..

[dbdb]

hahithestevieboy said:

I had an S1 elise 160 the ride on that was actually lovely but people thought that it was uncomfortable because every time you hit a bump there was a loud bang in the cabin. It was only really when stepping into another car (usually as passenger) that you realised that the ride in isolation to everything else was actually way better than alot of other cars.

I have a Jax (X350) XJR on 19's and I reckon that I have never been in a better riding car (cant remmeber the ride in my dad's old rover SD1 and later Granada). It is noticable that the ride does get better above 30 or 40 mph though..

They don't ride nearly as well as the XJ40 and Series Jags, but Jags after the XJ40 have a much 'sportier' more mainstream setup.

I like the ride and handling compromise on my '92 Jaguar on 15" wheels. It is much less unsettled by bumps and broken road surfaces than the BMW E91 325i (SE with 17" wheels) I also use. The Jaguar doesn't tramline at all on the motorway either.

The BMW has more grip certainly, but I prefer the handling of the Jag. I find it more sympathetic and informative. It is a car which can be driven fast on poor quality, demanding roads. It does need room though.

Mostly, it is the way it handles bad surfaces which impresses me. A pothole which barely registers as a 'plop-plop' noise in the Jag will crash through the structure of the BMW with enough force to make me wince for the car. I never seem to get used to that.

I suspect many PHers would dismiss my XJ40 as too soggy and would never discover how good its handling is and what it is capable of.

[corvus]

hahithestevieboy said:

(cant remmeber the ride in my dad's old rover SD1 and later Granada).

The ride in Granadas was sublime. SD1 was good but not quite as good as the Granada probably due partly to the live rear axle.

I really miss those soothing, soft riding cars. And I don't remember being concerned about the handling either.

[Conscript]

Ali_T said:

Going hand in hand with the degradation in ride quality is the obsession over body roll. People, many journos included, seem to equate body roll with poor handling. I originally bought my Alfa with the intention of replacing the springs and dampers because that's the part that was criticised the most in reviews. But the more I drive it, the less inclined I feel to change anything. It has great ride quality and great handling balance. Plenty of grip and the (not actually that extreme at all) body roll helps to telegraph when you're reaching the limits. I might gain a fraction of a second on a lap time by cornering flatter, but I'd ruin what is a really great road car by doing so, and I would be far less able to tell where the adhesion levels were running out. Body roll is actually a useful thing in a chassis for mere mortals as long as it's not 2CV/renault 4 levels of door handle scraping. It might limit your abilities to quickly change direction in a chicane or make you a little slower round the Nurburgring but, you know what? I don't care!

Isn't it true that allowing some body roll can actually improve handling/grip a little? I seem to remember reading that a stiffer anti roll bar can actually reduce grip, as the cornering inertia is instead transferred down through the chassis and wheels more readily.

Might be hogwash. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of suspension could comment, but seems to make logical sense to me.

[thiscocks]

Conscript said:

Isn't it true that allowing some body roll can actually improve handling/grip a little? I seem to remember reading that a stiffer anti roll bar can actually reduce grip, as the cornering inertia is instead transferred down through the chassis and wheels more readily.

Might be hogwash. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of suspension could comment, but seems to make logical sense to me.

Indeed on some surfaces no ARB is preferable for handling / grip, but depends on so many factors (car type, co gravity, roll centre, spring rate, suspension design ect...) as to whether a manufacturer will use an ARB or not. Over rough surfaces and pot holes ideally you want to have no ARB for a better ride. The Mclaren F1 didnt use a rear ARB, go figure..

Edited by thiscocks on Monday 26th January 17:07

[iloveboost]

Conscript said:

Isn't it true that allowing some body roll can actually improve handling/grip a little? I seem to remember reading that a stiffer anti roll bar can actually reduce grip, as the cornering inertia is instead transferred down through the chassis and wheels more readily.

Might be hogwash. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of suspension could comment, but seems to make logical sense to me.

I think it depends. If the body roll is bad it can mean the tyre produces less grip than expected from using the outer edge excessively, or the tyre load is inconsistent as the body moves excessively.

[LeoSayer]

dan98 said:

Ah great to hear! I really fancy the new A3, and that bodes well.
But to put it in context may I ask , did you drive the previous version in SE form? Can you make a comparison?

No, never did.

I did compare it to the MK7 Golf and that is slightly better riding, at the expense of some body control.

[Redlake27]

iloveboost said:

Conscript said:

Isn't it true that allowing some body roll can actually improve handling/grip a little? I seem to remember reading that a stiffer anti roll bar can actually reduce grip, as the cornering inertia is instead transferred down through the chassis and wheels more readily.

Might be hogwash. Perhaps someone with better knowledge of suspension could comment, but seems to make logical sense to me.

I think it depends. If the body roll is bad it can mean the tyre produces less grip than expected from using the outer edge excessively, or the tyre load is inconsistent as the body moves excessively.

It depends what you mean by handling. On a race track, no, as grip and balance is everything. On a road, where we are not at 10/10ths all the time, a little roll can give more feel and feedback , which some drivers would define as better handling.

[V8forweekends]

Swanny87 said:

dan98 said:

Ah great to hear! I really fancy the new A3, and that bodes well.
But to put it in context may I ask , did you drive the previous version in SE form? Can you make a comparison?

(edit)-the reason I ask is, as mentioned before, I found the old version jiggly, bouncy and just plain wrong (bobbing up and down at every imperfection in the road etc) Whereas many don't seem bothered by it.

Edited by dan98 on Monday 26th January 12:38

+1 for that, the old A3 was the worst riding car I'd ever been in. Almost made your bones turn into dust.

+1 My 2005 A3 Sport was by a very long margin the worst riding car I have ever had, with ironically, the most comfortable seats.

[AW111]

The main disadvantage of body roll is the associated camber change, especially with strut type suspension.
An old school live/de Dion rear doesn't have that problem, and most had wishbone front suspension, which suffers less from roll induced camber change.

[CDP]

corvus said:

hahithestevieboy said:

(cant remmeber the ride in my dad's old rover SD1 and later Granada).

The ride in Granadas was sublime. SD1 was good but not quite as good as the Granada probably due partly to the live rear axle.

I really miss those soothing, soft riding cars. And I don't remember being concerned about the handling either.

My Granada was very smooth, much better than my Rover 800 but not quite at the standard of the Princess.