Bring back ride quality!!
Discussion
A nice ride doesn't mean handling should be sacrificed.
In my experience, BMW 3s and 5s are great if they are on 16 inch or 17 inch wheels respectively. The Alfa 159 was good on small tyres, and pretty much all Fords I have driven have got the balance right. A Focus or Mondeo on standard suspension and 16in wheels is a very fine thing indeed at coping with British roads and allowing some fun.
Every Audi A3 or A4 I've driven has been terrible, which is a surprise as the related Skodas are pretty supple and have a better handling balance.
In my experience, BMW 3s and 5s are great if they are on 16 inch or 17 inch wheels respectively. The Alfa 159 was good on small tyres, and pretty much all Fords I have driven have got the balance right. A Focus or Mondeo on standard suspension and 16in wheels is a very fine thing indeed at coping with British roads and allowing some fun.
Every Audi A3 or A4 I've driven has been terrible, which is a surprise as the related Skodas are pretty supple and have a better handling balance.
My last car was a 330i coupe which had the 19" wheels, M sport suspension, 30 profile rear tyres and 42 psi rear tyre pressure.
My current car is a 125i coupe which has the 18" wheels, M sport suspension, 35 profile rear tyres and 36 psi tyre pressure. Yet it has a much worse ride than the 330, really suprised me.
My current car is a 125i coupe which has the 18" wheels, M sport suspension, 35 profile rear tyres and 36 psi tyre pressure. Yet it has a much worse ride than the 330, really suprised me.
Very interesting to read all these comments, it seems many people have realised how bad ride quality has become. I have 17" non runflats on my E60 and it rides quite well but I endure the scorn of my friends because the wheels look like buttons in the wheelarches.Incidentally I seem to recall the original runflat tyres weighing 13Kilos each! With the wheel, that is almost a sack of spuds unsprung weight at each corner, along with the mega stiff sidewalls no wonder it crashed and banged over bumps. I remember (here we go) riding in 1970's Jaguars and they had superb ride and handling, why on earth have things regressed despite 30 years of development?
I really have just about had it with crap ride quality, all my cars have had it. It's got to the point where I often take my gf's 1 litre corsa c to work rather than my e46 M3; far more compliant over the b roads I take and far less rattles.
I think it will be much higher up my priority list next time I am car shopping.
I think it will be much higher up my priority list next time I am car shopping.
I think most cars are 'over wheeled' just for fashion sake. - I've ended up driving a diesel mg zr. Why does a derv shopping cart require 17 inch wheels and low profile tyres?
After a while, I felt the ride just too firm. Swapped the wheels out for 15 inch wheels with much more normal profile rubber - it made an incredible difference. Ride is still fairly firm, but it's just so much more comfy on the motorway or over little bumps.
Grip, if anything, feels improved on normal roads - car doesn't skitter about anymore, instead, it rides the bumps as it should.
After a while, I felt the ride just too firm. Swapped the wheels out for 15 inch wheels with much more normal profile rubber - it made an incredible difference. Ride is still fairly firm, but it's just so much more comfy on the motorway or over little bumps.
Grip, if anything, feels improved on normal roads - car doesn't skitter about anymore, instead, it rides the bumps as it should.
I don't think that roads in th UK are particularly atrocious. Much worse roads can be found in many places - notably, in my experience; Ireland, Germany, Italy and perhaps the most appaling of all, California.
Having had many Citroens I don't really understand why people view a bit of body roll as such a bad thing. As long as the grip is there and the car is handling well it doesn't bother me at all - older Citroens have uncanny levels of predictable grip even on really bad roads.
Having had many Citroens I don't really understand why people view a bit of body roll as such a bad thing. As long as the grip is there and the car is handling well it doesn't bother me at all - older Citroens have uncanny levels of predictable grip even on really bad roads.
AnotherClarkey said:
I don't think that roads in th UK are particularly atrocious. Much worse roads can be found in many places - notably, in my experience; Ireland, Germany, Italy and perhaps the most appaling of all, California.
You obviously haven't tried driving in Bulgaria. Sometimes it's difficult to tell where the road ends and the fields begin. I'm so glad for this topic. My biggest complaint with all the good-looking cars is the ride quality. I used to have a 987 Boxster S on 18" wheels and it was very very firm. So much so that when I went over a pothole I thought the A-pillar was going to break off.
I will accept that for a sports car the ride will be firm, but if larger coupes are suffering this problem then its hopeless. You can never really drive fast because the ride won't let you. I find myself slowing down for bad road surfaces while some grandma in a Skoda just whizzes past!
I have found that Volvos have good ride quality but people slate them for handling. You have to make a choice and I think for me its ride quality.
I will accept that for a sports car the ride will be firm, but if larger coupes are suffering this problem then its hopeless. You can never really drive fast because the ride won't let you. I find myself slowing down for bad road surfaces while some grandma in a Skoda just whizzes past!
I have found that Volvos have good ride quality but people slate them for handling. You have to make a choice and I think for me its ride quality.
What's the point of having a fast car with good handling in the uk?
Other than track days you can't use to it's potential, there are hardly any police around instead there are camera's everywhere and anywhere, the roads are always busy so why have something fast?
Far better to have something comfy with a nice arm chair and sterogram to listen to .
Other than track days you can't use to it's potential, there are hardly any police around instead there are camera's everywhere and anywhere, the roads are always busy so why have something fast?
Far better to have something comfy with a nice arm chair and sterogram to listen to .
kev b said:
I endure the scorn of my friends because the wheels look like buttons in the wheelarches
Why are they bothered?I've got 16" steel wheels on My Mk4 Mondeo and I'm very happy, although the 215 tyres are arguably unnecessarily wide. The car doesn't jar over stones, the back-roads handling is fine(given the size of the thing) and the tyres are cheaper than larger ones.
There are quite a few people down-sizing their wheels on the Ford Forums and apparently the latest Ford brochure mentions the firm ride with 'sports' suspension and massive rims.
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 11th February 20:51
egor110 said:
What's the point of having a fast car with good handling in the uk?
Other than track days you can't use to it's potential, there are hardly any police around instead there are camera's everywhere and anywhere, the roads are always busy so why have something fast?
Far better to have something comfy with a nice arm chair and sterogram to listen to .
You seem to have stepped onto a car enthusiasts site here, I'm not sure where you were intending to post from but thought I'd best let you know so you can return to wherever it was you got lost from Other than track days you can't use to it's potential, there are hardly any police around instead there are camera's everywhere and anywhere, the roads are always busy so why have something fast?
Far better to have something comfy with a nice arm chair and sterogram to listen to .
chris116 said:
My last car was a 330i coupe which had the 19" wheels, M sport suspension, 30 profile rear tyres and 42 psi rear tyre pressure.
My current car is a 125i coupe which has the 18" wheels, M sport suspension, 35 profile rear tyres and 36 psi tyre pressure. Yet it has a much worse ride than the 330, really suprised me.
Run flats?My current car is a 125i coupe which has the 18" wheels, M sport suspension, 35 profile rear tyres and 36 psi tyre pressure. Yet it has a much worse ride than the 330, really suprised me.
Dracoro said:
You seem to have stepped onto a car enthusiasts site here, I'm not sure where you were intending to post from but thought I'd best let you know so you can return to wherever it was you got lost from
And your point is? there are forums on here for heavy plant machinery, cooking and good books people have read.
Good to have opened up a popular topic. Personally I think James May is right, its the bloody Nurburgring!
you CAN have good ride and handling. the 306 GTI-6 was beautifully supple, ditto the original Elise, the Mk1 Impreza Turbo and remember the CX GTI? supposedly one of the fastest A to B bumpy road cars ever made.
trouble is, for track days, you need low roll rates, low profile tyres and massive grip and rigidy above all else. Hence all manufacturers are chasing lap times, rather than something that is comfortable on british back roads. Glad so many of you are fellow grumpy old gits like me who also agree that we need to ressurect a decent ride quality. BTW, father in laws Jag is 19 inch wheels, hence firmer ride than normal..>!
you CAN have good ride and handling. the 306 GTI-6 was beautifully supple, ditto the original Elise, the Mk1 Impreza Turbo and remember the CX GTI? supposedly one of the fastest A to B bumpy road cars ever made.
trouble is, for track days, you need low roll rates, low profile tyres and massive grip and rigidy above all else. Hence all manufacturers are chasing lap times, rather than something that is comfortable on british back roads. Glad so many of you are fellow grumpy old gits like me who also agree that we need to ressurect a decent ride quality. BTW, father in laws Jag is 19 inch wheels, hence firmer ride than normal..>!
I'd vote yes please to ride quality!
Does modern horrible ride come as a result of trying to make heavy cars corner? I went in a bog standard 205 with 30k on the clock and was very impressed by the ride, and an old e28 BMW.
By contrast the worst (non sporting pretensions car) I had the misfortune to travel in was a 2009 Honda Civic - travelling in the back was actually uncomfortable, what on earth were they thinking?
By contrast our old Laguna was very comfortable, but it gave me backache over a long distance. The mk1 Focus seems an excellent compromise generally for an everyday car.
All the newer A4s and A3s I have been in have been and drove seemed 'wrong' to me - even in SE they don't seem to cope well enough ride wise, as if they tuned everything for VW then Audi stiffened it up to make for a more 'dynamic' ride.
Does modern horrible ride come as a result of trying to make heavy cars corner? I went in a bog standard 205 with 30k on the clock and was very impressed by the ride, and an old e28 BMW.
By contrast the worst (non sporting pretensions car) I had the misfortune to travel in was a 2009 Honda Civic - travelling in the back was actually uncomfortable, what on earth were they thinking?
By contrast our old Laguna was very comfortable, but it gave me backache over a long distance. The mk1 Focus seems an excellent compromise generally for an everyday car.
All the newer A4s and A3s I have been in have been and drove seemed 'wrong' to me - even in SE they don't seem to cope well enough ride wise, as if they tuned everything for VW then Audi stiffened it up to make for a more 'dynamic' ride.
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