RE: PDK-only for next Porsche 911 GT3?

[sleep envy]

Dr S said:

People who don't care about outright performance would also not be happy in case a new GT3 were not able keep lesser metal at a reasonable distance around the Ring or any other track of your liking.

depends if you live your life according to the Gospel of St Evo

[Dave Hedgehog]

PDK is an irrelevance for 99% of us

since we will never get to drive one let alone own one

[Pugsey]

PDK doesn't need skillful input from driver and isn't fun?? Flat down the straight (on track) and into that 2nd/3rd gear corner. HARD on the brakes (left foot) still on them past turn in making the rear weight squirm, bang, bang, bang down the gears working hard to balance a car that's dancing on limits of adhiesion under turning and braking forces, there's the apex and on the power. What's not to like? Just as much fun/skill as manual - just different. And don't lets get into a 'not the best technique/fastest way' please. This is a track day and about fun not the last few tenths. Having had a couple of GT3s I wouldn't mind which box I got with the new one. But on balance I'll go PDK - if I'm offered the option. I actually find it MORE fun than manual now. Plus I've had many years of manual cars so happy to move on - and there'll always be something manual in my garage anyway when I want to relive 'the good old days'.

[Dr S]

kambites said:

Can't you just turn them off?

You cannot turn off either ABS or active suspension (PASM) - especially the latter for very good technical reasons

[tom felty]

PDK only, what a stupid idea

dont think that they reakise how many customers they will loose out on!

[khooni]

Dr S said:

For me, a GT3 should feel raw and provide me with a race car feeling whenever I drive it. Whether that is achieved via a manual or a well sorted race-capable PDK box, I could not care less.

exactly, like a scud or challenge F car. why does PDK lessen the experience of a race car? As long as it feels like a race car, I'd say job done. In fact, I am swinging towards PDK myself......

[Pugsey]

tom felty said:

PDK only, what a stupid idea

dont think that they reakise how many customers they will loose out on!

Think you'll find that regular buyers - ie owners of current cars who always have orders in for the next version - will still go ahead and buy the next one. Even if they'd prefer manual. Suspect they'll loose very few customers.

[Dave Hedgehog]

one advantage of duel clutch you will never have to live this down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTBcWR6hhNQ

[khooni]

Pugsey said:

- and there'll always be something manual in my garage anyway when I want to relive 'the good old days'.

correct. And Porsche are targeting people with the MONEY to spend on a pseudo race car and yet have another car for other purposes. Internet forums are full of people that can't afford a new one but love to give their opinion of what they would buy if they had the money..... The problem being that if they have the money, they would prolly think different. And that separates those that have and those that have not.

[kambites]

I suspect that anyone who says they want a "race car for the road" has never tried driving a racing car on the road - in my experience it's generally a damned unpleasant experience.

[kambites]

Pugsey said:

Think you'll find that regular buyers - ie owners of current cars who always have orders in for the next version - will still go ahead and buy the next one. Even if they'd prefer manual. Suspect they'll loose very few customers.

That's not what this thread seems to imply - look back at the number of current GT3 owners who've said they simply wont consider this if it's PDK only.

[sleep envy]

kambites said:

I suspect that anyone who says they want a "race car for the road" has never tried driving a racing car on the road - in my experience it's generally a damned unpleasant experience.

but awesome in the pub

[Pugsey]

kambites said:

Pugsey said:

Think you'll find that regular buyers - ie owners of current cars who always have orders in for the next version - will still go ahead and buy the next one. Even if they'd prefer manual. Suspect they'll loose very few customers.

That's not what this thread seems to imply - look back at the number of current GT3 owners who've said they simply wont consider this if it's PDK only.

Point taken. But I actually don't believe it. Was chatting to a group of pals last night. All serial, new GT3 buyers. Couple said they would cancel orders if only PDK available BUT when pressed - ie will they really be happy to read all the rave reviews, press coverage, go to launch, see car at trackdays etc., etc., and for the first time in years not be able to say "yep I've got one" they both sounded as if they'd weaken to me! After all saying you'll never buy a PDK GT3 could mean that you'll NEVER buy another, newer replacement GT3 and I just don't see them trolling around in a five/ten/twenty year old car - however much of a classic - for the rest of their lives. Sure, they may keep an old one ASWELL but these are guys who buy new to drive as semi everyday cars. Plus most GT3 owners I know are suckers for the latest thing. Isn't that how Porsche keep selling their latest versions?

Edited by Pugsey on Wednesday 15th February 13:21

[Pugsey]

kambites said:

I suspect that anyone who says they want a "race car for the road" has never tried driving a racing car on the road - in my experience it's generally a damned unpleasant experience.

Very true! Similarly, even the great GT3 ends up being modifying by most who track them seriously.

[havoc]

People have been predicting the demise of the manual 'box in performance cars for a few years now. If the GT3 is PDK only, that'll be another step closer...esp as the "new NSX" will have flappy paddles.

Who'll be left?
- Lotus now offer an automated option, but their manuals have never been great.
- Morgan?
- BMW M-division are veering towards double-clutch units.
- Aston only sell a small number of manuals.
- the Italian supercar makers are all either completely or nearly manual-free zones.
- Noble? Are we really down to quoting small independent mfrs???




No, wait...it's OK - the MX5 still has a manual!

[Dr S]

Pugsey said:

kambites said:

I suspect that anyone who says they want a "race car for the road" has never tried driving a racing car on the road - in my experience it's generally a damned unpleasant experience.

Very true! Similarly, even the great GT3 ends up being modifying by most who track them seriously.

There is a big difference between a proper race car and a car providing "race car feeling". However, there are many different classes in racing and in VLN and Ring 24h there are several "near stock" ones.

Also, Porsche managed to finish 12th overall with a stock 7.2 RS in the Ring 24h in 2010 with geo changed to work with slicks was the only noteworthy modification.

And right, I would also not want to drive a Cup S/R as a daily drive...

[Pugsey]

Dr S said:

Pugsey said:

kambites said:

I suspect that anyone who says they want a "race car for the road" has never tried driving a racing car on the road - in my experience it's generally a damned unpleasant experience.

Very true! Similarly, even the great GT3 ends up being modifying by most who track them seriously.

There is a big difference between a proper race car and a car providing "race car feeling". However, there are many different classes in racing and in VLN and Ring 24h there are several "near stock" ones.

Also, Porsche managed to finish 12th overall with a stock 7.2 RS in the Ring 24h in 2010 with geo changed to work with slicks was the only noteworthy modification.

And right, I would also not want to drive a Cup S/R as a daily drive...

All true. Don't particularly like racing 'stock spec' cars myself. Like my race cars to be race cars. But that's just me.

Back OT. OK - who has new GT3 on order and whole will cancel if PDK only.

I'll start:- I have and won't cancel.

[dazren]

Pugsey said:

Back OT. OK - who has new GT3 on order and whole will cancel if PDK only.

I'll start:- I have and won't cancel.

On order. Will cancel if no manual.

[Pugsey]

I've started a thread for the 'to order/not to order question over on Porsche board too.

[Pugsey]

So, currently, it's running 33% would cancel. Of the remaining majority, half would prefer manual but take PDK if that's all that's on offer and half would actually prefer PDK.