RE: PDK-only for next Porsche 911 GT3?

[wab172uk]

khooni said:

I think the PDK is the way to go. For normal drivers, it is the fastestand has less room for error via botched downshifts or over-revs. For the minority out there that are driving gods, this rule does not apply. But more importantly, I don't think you would enjoy it any less on the track. On normal roads, the current car is already way too fast and way too grippy for ultimate involvement anyway.

Then let the normal drivers buy a normal 911. Leave the GT3 type cars for those who don't want a "Normal" 911. They want a special 911.

[RichTBiscuit]

why not just make PDK and option?

The pussies can take PDK and the real drivers can have a proper gearbox

[BlackPrince]

mogjay said:

The reason most companies are moving away from manual shifts is not because it's better but because it's easier , ferraris and lambo's are no longer just supercars but they also have to be easy to handle luxury cruisers for dimwitted Hollywood stars an carpet warehouse owners to pose in

Thats why I'm recent years purists have turned to the gt3

Exactly, the people who buy Aventadors are people like Cristiano Ronaldo and basketball star Kobe Bryant. In the UK, since the Ferrari California's launch in 2010, there has supposedly been ONE car sold with a clutch pedal. All the rest had F1 trannys. The people who buy GT3s aren't looking (so much anyway) to impress people at a film premiere or swanky gala, but to really DRIVE.

Also, I think that manual gearboxes in certain cars (GT3 mostly) wont go away anytime soon because of the Americans. When the E60 M5 was only offered in SMG, they protested and BMW gave the Americans a clutch-pedalled M5. In Toronto, Canada 99% of the Porsches you now see on the street are Carrera, Carrera S or Turbo and all of them come with PDK. There are no GT3s around at all despite the wealth here. However, according to one dealer I spoke to, a few of those with GT3s also have another Porsche as an everyday car, and they keep the GT3 for trackdays only, where they come in droves. I dont see these people being v. happy with the idea of the GT3 being Porsche only and as long as they are alive I don't see Porsche getting rid of the manual gearbox in its GTx cars.

[juansolo]

Two things; we're stuck in this cycle of faster=better at the moment. Which has gone on so long that people have lost sight of what makes cars fun to drive. Also it's easier for modern autos are easier to meet ever tighter emissions regs.

Unless things change, the manual box is set to become a thing of the past. Sad.

Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 14th February 13:25

Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 14th February 13:32

[SleeperCell]

It does increasingly feel a bit odd to have an old fashioned manual shift in a modern car when literally every other part of the car seems to be automated. A manual in a Nissan GT-R would seem a bit wrong for instance. But a GT3 is normally pretty stripped out, so there's an argument for a manual shifter.

I do prefer a manual shift for those times of proper 7 or 8 tenths driving on the road, however other situations from commuting to flat out track work an auto is usually the better tool. So an auto shifter for an all rounder or daily driver and a manual for the weekend car. A 911 Turbo is a tech heavy, all rounder machine much like the GTR, so it makes some sense for it to be a PDK only.

A GT3 however can be either track machine or weekend fun car depending on the buyer, so it's a tough one. PDK will probably win out in Europe, though I bet they will bottle it and offer a manual for the Americans, much like BMW has done.

[sob.gt3]

Management of Change "Despite the potential positive outcomes, change is nearly always resisted"
Purest thinking belongs to the 'Classic Car' mind set
Being the fastest drives Porsche to stay ahead of the pack, hence they must always make progress
PDK = Faster Lap Times
Move on, get over it (or buy a Classic).

[dazren]

I've had a LOI in for a 991GT3 since august 2010 when I had to buy a new engine for my turbo. If there is no manual option on the new GT3 I will not be buying it. I'll also be pi$$ed off that I've waited a few years for a non existant car to be built.

[LCR270]

they may not have had any complaints, but perhaps they lost potential sales from it not being optional on the Turbo model - keep it optional, maximise customer base - it's seemple !

P.S. Note to Porsche management, sack the accountant who tells you otherwise ;-)

[Mr Whippy]

khooni said:

I think the PDK is the way to go. For normal drivers, it is the fastestand has less room for error via botched downshifts or over-revs. For the minority out there that are driving gods, this rule does not apply. But more importantly, I don't think you would enjoy it any less on the track. On normal roads, the current car is already way too fast and way too grippy for ultimate involvement anyway.

Which is exactly why you want to fall back on an involving gear shift to make making progress a bit slower and more involved...

PDK will just make it so you expend about 50% of your driving effort to go 10/10ths, rather than about 75% because you are thinking about the gears too.


The logic is the same, why not have auto-steering too? Faster, less possibility for the driver to get it wrong, faster lap times because the steering would be perfect.


It's just the insidious onward match of dummies buying cars they shouldn't be. If they can't appreciate a gear shift, they are not buying it for the driving pleasure. If they are honestly buying it because it makes it faster on a track, then they are buying the wrong car to start with if they want a fast track car!

Dave

[juansolo]

sob.gt3 said:

Management of Change "Despite the potential positive outcomes, change is nearly always resisted"
Purest thinking belongs to the 'Classic Car' mind set
Being the fastest drives Porsche to stay ahead of the pack, hence they must always make progress
PDK = Faster Lap Times
Move on, get over it (or buy a Classic).

If it was all about lap times there wouldn't be a 911. So marketing under the guise of tradition still counts. There still may be hope...

[baz1985]

At least you won't have to worry about DME range over-revs!

[RichTBiscuit]

sob.gt3 said:

Management of Change "Despite the potential positive outcomes, change is nearly always resisted"
Purest thinking belongs to the 'Classic Car' mind set
Being the fastest drives Porsche to stay ahead of the pack, hence they must always make progress
PDK = Faster Lap Times
Move on, get over it (or buy a Classic).

er, yeah.

PDK in a GT3 is not a positive outcome in many people's books.

PDK would be great for competitve events - i.e where you absolutely MUST be fastest.

On a track day, or general driving however, manual all the way.

[Jamesp24]

If its PDK ill be getting my order in..fingers crossed

[Gorbyrev]

Isn't part of the GT3 magic supposed to be light weight? Double clutch gearboxes are notoriously porky (no pun intended) even if the uber engineers have got the PDK light as possible. Even though the lap times are quicker if you are chucking in perspex windows and ripping out seats to save weight why wouldn't you stick with a manual at least as an option? My guess is that the new aluminium bonded parts of the body shell will be cancelled out by the extra weight of the PDK. Makes the fabric door pulls seem even sillier IMHO.

[SRM355]

Will be a very sad day if the GT3 is launched with PDK only. You just can't beat a manual in a drivers car for the full fat experience IMO. Manual gets my vote every time.....

[DMC2]

Well that would be my order cancelled for a start.

[LukeBird]

sleep envy said:

I think the bell is already tolling loud and clear

as for those who say the GT3 is the last bastion of a pure driving experience, well, they've had active damper management on the 997 GT3 for sometime now

I'd be willing to bet that the 991 GT3 will be PDK only when it's released

I wish I didn't agree, but envy is bang on here IMO.
A shame, but this is just a product of the 'quicker=better' marketing we've been subjected to for the last few years.

[SWoll]

Finally. It's about time Porsche try to drag drivers into the 21st century by forcing them to use PDK in a GT3.

At the end of the day the manual gearbox is an annoying compromise that was put in place until a proper resolution was found to the issue of changing gear without requiring another foot pedal and the need to take one hand off the steering wheel all the time.

I derive my driving enjoyment from managing the weight transfer, grip, braking and throttle of my car when pushing on. The fact that I have to take one hand off the wheel every few seconds is a hindrance to my enjoyment, not a key part of it.

The skill with gears surely comes from selecting the correct one for the situation, a task that is both quicker, safer and easier with a modern DSG etc box.

I know the vast majority wont agree, but that's how I feel anyway.

[Mr Whippy]

juansolo said:

sob.gt3 said:

Management of Change "Despite the potential positive outcomes, change is nearly always resisted"
Purest thinking belongs to the 'Classic Car' mind set
Being the fastest drives Porsche to stay ahead of the pack, hence they must always make progress
PDK = Faster Lap Times
Move on, get over it (or buy a Classic).

If it was all about lap times there wouldn't be a 911. So marketing under the guise of tradition still counts. There still may be hope...

Less weight = faster lap times, oh, but people need their PDK gearbox, big comfy seats, sat nav, aircon, radio, 'safety', big huge bling wheels, yadda yadda yadda.

As a product the GT3 is now just turning into another premium £££ product in the Porsche line up, sold under the idea it's something special in increasing numbers to people who don't have a clue.


It's interesting that robot manuals have been around, and faster on track, for over a decade, yet Porsche choose to move to PDK only now for their fastest track car? A clear sign they are doing it for cheapness more than anything, and no doubt the slightly lower co2 bullst rating will help lower their fleet average!

Dave

[E38Ross]

i'm willing to bet they'll still be a manual option.