RE: PDK-only for next Porsche 911 GT3?

[khooni]

Actually I think this is bks. They will offer a manual GT3.

It has already been engineered in the 991 so it should be easy to introduce.

It is the pricing I suggest that will shock the lot of you.

If I were Porsche, by offering a manual Gt3 I would have cornered the market for quality, reliable, manual supercars. There are always buyers for that. Why would I throw that away? I would raise the price of the Gt3 such that in standard it is PDK with a no cost option for manual. Then they can make outsized profits for those that insist on wanting a manual....

Since that target will always be there why not charge them for it.....
and still be hailed for saving the manual. WIN WIN

awesome

[E38Ross]

Mr Whippy said:

juansolo said:

sob.gt3 said:

Management of Change "Despite the potential positive outcomes, change is nearly always resisted"
Purest thinking belongs to the 'Classic Car' mind set
Being the fastest drives Porsche to stay ahead of the pack, hence they must always make progress
PDK = Faster Lap Times
Move on, get over it (or buy a Classic).

If it was all about lap times there wouldn't be a 911. So marketing under the guise of tradition still counts. There still may be hope...

Less weight = faster lap times, oh, but people need their PDK gearbox, big comfy seats, sat nav, aircon, radio, 'safety', big huge bling wheels, yadda yadda yadda.

As a product the GT3 is now just turning into another premium £££ product in the Porsche line up, sold under the idea it's something special in increasing numbers to people who don't have a clue.


It's interesting that robot manuals have been around, and faster on track, for over a decade, yet Porsche choose to move to PDK only now for their fastest track car? A clear sign they are doing it for cheapness more than anything, and no doubt the slightly lower co2 bullst rating will help lower their fleet average!

Dave

sorry dave but you're chatting st there IMO

[Gorbyrev]

There is an air of inevitability about this. Perhaps the discrepancy between the majority of us who cannot afford a GT3 and those who are actually able to spend in that league are voting with their left feet. It will be interesting to see what happens to the values of the much rarer manual F430 as years go by. The last bastion of 3 pedal Ferraridom. As for buying a classic, fair enough, but these are just 10 years away from becoming classics themselves. The eagerness of people of more modest means to pick them up has a direct effect on residuals, and thus, their desirability as a purchase in the first place.

[gl20]

Commercial airliners have had autoland for years but most pilots will chose to land the plane manually when permitted. And so the same goes that many car drivers would prefer to change gear manually. It doesn't make them a luddite, they will likely appreciate the engineering that goes into a PDK but would CHOOSE to change manually for much of the time. (and yes I know tou can choose your gear in a PDK but you don't get the satisfaction of doing the heal/toe yourself)

Of course if it has to be one or the other and I was the Porsche finance or marketing person then I can see it may make more commercial sense to go with the PDK. But like others have said I don't see why it has to be this way. When it comes to engine/transmission the GTT3 is not THAT different to a base 911 or S is it? So why can't they offer both?

[Rrroro]

Personally for me, whatever is quicker. Simples.

[JonRB]

SWoll said:

Finally. It's about time Porsche try to drag drivers into the 21st century by forcing them to use PDK in a GT3.

Forcing? Good god, man, what kind of talk is that? You're actually honestly saying that removing choice from people is a good thing? By all means don't bother making things that nobody wants (I think Sony recently retired the cassette Walkman as there is zero demand now) but whilst there is still demand then surely it's lunacy not to cater for it.

Ferrari didn't offer a manual gearbox on the 458 because sales of the manual gearbox variant of its predecessor were so negligible that it was uneconomic to develop a manual gearbox for the 458. They didn't force drivers to use a robot gearbox - people just weren't buying them.

Porsche is in a very different game. It has a much wider product range (albeit variants of a handful of models) and the GT3 is aimed at a different type of buyer. I think there is room for choice here. And if almost no GT3s sell with a manual gearbox then the market has spoken and they can quietly drop the manual option then, just like Ferrari did. But to do it now is premature.

[mike-r]

I don't know why it's not an option, like having a third pedal in Audi's S models. We've always had options between manual and auto - seems a bit Henry Ford to only offer it with one kind of gearbox and in that sense slightly backward.

[JonRB]

khooni said:

If I were Porsche, by offering a manual Gt3 I would have cornered the market for quality, reliable, manual supercars. There are always buyers for that. Why would I throw that away? I would raise the price of the Gt3 such that in standard it is PDK with a no cost option for manual. Then they can make outsized profits for those that insist on wanting a manual....

Since that target will always be there why not charge them for it.....
and still be hailed for saving the manual. WIN WIN

Brilliant, plausible, and sensible. As you say, everybody wins.

[kambites]

Hmm, it would seem madness to me for them to not offer both.

[Polarbert]

sob.gt3 said:

Management of Change "Despite the potential positive outcomes, change is nearly always resisted"
Purest thinking belongs to the 'Classic Car' mind set
Being the fastest drives Porsche to stay ahead of the pack, hence they must always make progress
PDK = Faster Lap Times
Move on, get over it (or buy a Classic).

bks.

Why don't we just make the cars drive themselves as thats what might happen eventually.


I'll always want a manual gearbox in my car.

[gizard]

Which engine will it have though?

[soad]

kambites said:

Hmm, it would seem madness to me for them to not offer both.

You'd think so but who knows.

[mogjay]

Whichever way you look at it changing gear is a big part of the driving sensation and if a few of us 'ludites' prefer to do it manually why can't we pay Porsche a large sum of money to drive the car we like the way we want?

[xr287]

Making a totally sweeping generalisation here but I would wager that the majority of posters here who say its crazy and wrong are NOT in a position to buy one and are not the target market for this car anyway.

Porsche is a business and it will follow the demands of its current target market. I am fairly certain they have monitored the sales of manual GT3s and done a lot of market research before making a decision like this.

[kambites]

xr287 said:

Making a totally sweeping generalisation here but I would wager that the majority of posters here who say its crazy and wrong are NOT in a position to buy one and are not the target market for this car anyway.

Porsche is a business and it will follow the demands of its current target market. I am fairly certain they have monitored the sales of manual GT3s and done a lot of market research before making a decision like this.

But it doesn't really sound like they have - the guy seems to be saying that they have decided to offer only one gearbox but not which one. If they'd done the research and decided that one gearbox wasn't selling, surely they'd know which.

It sounds like they're saying that they can't afford to develop both but don't know which to drop, which would imply that sales projections for the two boxes are fairly close so it's going to come down to which will lose them least sales.

[xr287]

kambites said:

But it doesn't really sound like they have - the guy seems to be saying that they have decided to offer only one gearbox but not which one. If they'd done the research and decided that one gearbox wasn't selling, surely they'd know which.

It sounds like they're saying that they can't afford to develop both but don't know which to drop, which would imply that sales projections for the two boxes are fairly close so it's going to come down to which will lose them least sales.

You're right so let me rephrase to "I am fairly certain they are monitoring the sales of manual GT3s and will do a lot of market research before making a decision like this."

What I mean is they will follow market demand rather than "purists" because it's all about sales figures.

[kambites]

Well hopefully they'll go for the manual 'box anyway.

Or even better change their mind and produce both.

[mogjay]

Compromises are for renaults and toyotas , not the prestige market

[mrdemon]

They will have to do PDK to make the figures look anywhere near the cars it's up with

PDK gains you a full 1 second to 120MPh and is the cheapest way to a faster car on paper stats.

[D.no]

If the rumour mill is correct, and Porsche really is facing a decision over which cog-swapping device to employ on the GT3 (as opposed to offering both options), then there is obviously some constraint in the current manufacturing process that does not allow both derivatives to be built economically. It could be something as seemingly simple as line-side stillaging space. Most problems of this ilk can be desolved with a liberal application of investment, but then greater returns are required to maintain the business case (assuming any solution can be implemented in time). The GT3 doesn'y share the same facility as the cooking models.

I'm sure Porsche would love to offer both derivatives, but the fact (if it is a fact) that they are facing this tough choice must mean they are otherwise constrained. They're onviously not in this predicament because they fancy a bit more hair loss.

I sincerely hope the balance is weighted in favour of the manual...