RE: PDK-only for next Porsche 911 GT3?

[havoc]

spyderman8 said:

kambites said:

Racing cars are not designed to be fun, though.

I guess that rather depends on what level of racing you're talking about. Certainly the RSR (at approach 5 million Euros) is a serious beast.

Isn't that the point - "serious" doesn't equal "fun"?

And more pertinently, your typical racer has very narrow limits - much more so than the equivalent road car. So you need to be that much better a driver to pedal at/near those limits. Which 99% of people, even probably 99% of PH'ers, aren't.


For many, fun = involvement, interaction - feeling like you're the one in control, the one 'doing' the driving, not the car. Pare that right back and you've got a Caterham. Take a more moderate middle-ground and you've got stuff like TVRs, Type-Rs, Porsche GT3s, etc. These cars are rated and raved about for a reason...

[Dr JonboyG]

sob.gt3 said:

Read thread on new Porsche 960....911 RSR no longer competive in GT racing, new mid engined racer will replace.
(Downside is no longer any need for GT3RS)

I don't suppose you have a link to that thread? Sounds interesting and I can't find it by searching.

I'd be really quite surprised if Porsche stopped competing with the 911, it's been central to the marketing of the car since its inception. Saying they're not taking it racing is basically admitting that it's rubbish compared to the opposition, and I can't see Porsche doing that.

Edited by Dr JonboyG on Thursday 16th February 20:16

[mollytherocker]

Dr JonboyG said:

A GT3 with a gearbox that has its roots in the 956 sounds about as special as GT3 with an engine block that can trace its way back to the same car...

Mmmm, its hard to argue with that on the face of it. I am always banging on about the 'Mezger engine' etc.

But, the thing is this. A racing car is a racing car. If some gaffa tape around the headlights reduces drag and makes it 0.1mph faster down the Mulsanne, then dandy doo, lets put it around the windscreen too. Oh, and lets employ a midget, like Anthony Davidson.

But we are talking about a road car, OK, an extreme road car that blurs the lines between SPAR and SPA.

A road going GT3 is about giving the enthusiast a taste of a race car, with the least compromises as is possible.

BUT, its about fun! And the challenge of this thing we love thats called driving. For me, thats a manual box, and all of the challenges and difficulties that brings. Is a chip faster than me, probably. Am I bovered? No.

Think of it like this - What makes your eyes twitch more, Vettels smooth mastery, or Sennas lap around Monaco in a manual Honda Turbo?

The case for the manual box rests ma Lord.

PORSCHE, you know what to do.

MTR

Edited by mollytherocker on Thursday 16th February 21:14

[SonnyM]

mollytherocker said:

...PORSCHE, you know what to do....

[SonnyM]

Polarbert said:

DiscoColin said:

Polarbert said:

I thought it started on the Porsche rally cars? Or am I mistaken.

A quick google points to the original Porsche developed PDK system being installed in Group C (956/962) in 1983 and the S1 Audi Sport Quattro some time from 1985. I'll leave it for someone else to dig out anything more specific though.

Cool.

Especially for you all...

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0807_de...

[mollytherocker]

SonnyM said:

Polarbert said:

DiscoColin said:

Polarbert said:

I thought it started on the Porsche rally cars? Or am I mistaken.

A quick google points to the original Porsche developed PDK system being installed in Group C (956/962) in 1983 and the S1 Audi Sport Quattro some time from 1985. I'll leave it for someone else to dig out anything more specific though.

Cool.

Especially for you all...

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0807_de...

Its always great to hear from someone like Bell of course. But read it. Its hardly relevant. Its about RACING.

MTR

[Gary C]

mollytherocker said:

Gary C said:

Dr JonboyG said:

If it means the RSR gets a PDK gearbox, then the 'purists' don't have a leg to stand on.

Why?

Because it will wither and die.

MTR

Their legs?

I see what you meant but porsche still has a significant number of buyers who would like a manual. Question is why.

I know I like the G50 in my Carrera, a pdk would undountedly be "better" from any engineering pov, a link to the race car is a nice fashion accessory, but I like the way a manual makes the experience broader, and so do a lot of other Porsche owners I believe. As such I think the manual should be available.

[juansolo]

This is a tough one as after a recent test drive of a different modern car with a 7 speed auto (that could also do flappy paddles), I would have the auto for my daily driver. It was that smooth and impressive. That's the first time I've ever been able to say that.

However, for my road toys I'd still rather have a manual box rather than klickenflappen. Purely because I enjoy the manual process of driving. Sure it's is slower, so what? I'm not on track, why would it matter. I like the feeling of well executed changes. It's part of the appeal.

I can see Porsches reasoning, there's a significant and noticable difference in the acceleration figures (which like it or not, sell cars), and it certainly brings down emmissions. Also having only one box is easier and more economical than offering two. Which is why I do think the switch over is sadly inevitable. But some of us are dinosaurs and like the interactivity of a manual box.

Also, FWIW, PDK is a robotised manual system and modern race cars (Porsche included) use proper sequential gears with no clutch (except for start) and straight cut dog gears. They may have tried the system in the 70's, but they're very different these days and are in no way suitable for road use or are comparable to them. Much like Ferrari's road system bears knob all resemblance to the stuff they use in F1 other than the change is initiated by a wheel mounted paddle switch.

Edited by juansolo on Saturday 18th February 08:49

[Baddie]

Dave Hedgehog said:

can you get a manual fezza now?

Probably depends how much money you've got. LH got a paddle-shift Zonda with a manual box.