RE: Chris Harris video: BMW M5 vs Nissan GT-R
Discussion
Diamond,
"The earlier Autocar reference about the Focus RS shows it well. On a bumpy road that has few straights a supple , well sorted, fast hatch would keep up with a GT3 for example and a Scuderia. The GTR has more weapons (4WD , GR6 double clutch transmission etc) but it would need a bit of space to get away. Its wide and its ride is TOO hard in those circumstances."
But I hear that the 2012' car has rather improved comfort? Also I've talked with many Impreza owners who claim that in the sort of conditions that Chris is driving that 4wd IS a help and does show up the limitations of cars like the Focus RS and Megane even;; I think a good few weeks driving a megane rs and a nicely fettled Impreza and a GTR would be instructive for each of their respective abilities and shortcomings. j
"The earlier Autocar reference about the Focus RS shows it well. On a bumpy road that has few straights a supple , well sorted, fast hatch would keep up with a GT3 for example and a Scuderia. The GTR has more weapons (4WD , GR6 double clutch transmission etc) but it would need a bit of space to get away. Its wide and its ride is TOO hard in those circumstances."
But I hear that the 2012' car has rather improved comfort? Also I've talked with many Impreza owners who claim that in the sort of conditions that Chris is driving that 4wd IS a help and does show up the limitations of cars like the Focus RS and Megane even;; I think a good few weeks driving a megane rs and a nicely fettled Impreza and a GTR would be instructive for each of their respective abilities and shortcomings. j
Awesome video as usual chris, such a great choice of cars to compare both very desirable in terms of performance & i would find it very hard to choose between them if it was my own money.
Keep up the good work its really paying off & i wish i could drive like you do, you make it look easy.
Keep up the good work its really paying off & i wish i could drive like you do, you make it look easy.
j123 said:
Diamond,
"The earlier Autocar reference about the Focus RS shows it well. On a bumpy road that has few straights a supple , well sorted, fast hatch would keep up with a GT3 for example and a Scuderia. The GTR has more weapons (4WD , GR6 double clutch transmission etc) but it would need a bit of space to get away. Its wide and its ride is TOO hard in those circumstances."
But I hear that the 2012' car has rather improved comfort? Also I've talked with many Impreza owners who claim that in the sort of conditions that Chris is driving that 4wd IS a help and does show up the limitations of cars like the Focus RS and Megane even;; I think a good few weeks driving a megane rs and a nicely fettled Impreza and a GTR would be instructive for each of their respective abilities and shortcomings. j
J,"The earlier Autocar reference about the Focus RS shows it well. On a bumpy road that has few straights a supple , well sorted, fast hatch would keep up with a GT3 for example and a Scuderia. The GTR has more weapons (4WD , GR6 double clutch transmission etc) but it would need a bit of space to get away. Its wide and its ride is TOO hard in those circumstances."
But I hear that the 2012' car has rather improved comfort? Also I've talked with many Impreza owners who claim that in the sort of conditions that Chris is driving that 4wd IS a help and does show up the limitations of cars like the Focus RS and Megane even;; I think a good few weeks driving a megane rs and a nicely fettled Impreza and a GTR would be instructive for each of their respective abilities and shortcomings. j
I can't say I've got loads of Impreza experience though my GTR was looked after by Litchfields who are hugely knowledgeable about them and have lent me a couple of STis for the day.
I agree the 4WD helps out compared to a FWD hatch. But the Megane I'm tooling around in has amazing traction considering and the diff allows it to do amazing things. There's real magic in the way it steers and controls its body. Renaultsport really know their stuff.
The Impreza in STI form is totally outclassed in performance terms. Its narrow and agile but the GTR just blitzes it.
Its not just acceleration. Its the composure, the stupidly good DCT box and , yes, the clever, clever electronics.
I don't know how much better the 2012 car is. Never driven one , but a GTR bounces on badly surfaced , twisty uneven B Roads. But so does a GT3.
Given a better mix of roads and surfaces the faster cars just disappear. Constrained by speed limits and good sense if your not a complete nutter.
Ahhhh... I believe that the roads are mainly those between the cross hands and acton turville. This, more than anything, shows that Chris knows his stuff!
Nice shots of Castle Combe too.
As someone said earlier, these roads may not be available to hooners much longer, so enjoy while you can!
Nice shots of Castle Combe too.
As someone said earlier, these roads may not be available to hooners much longer, so enjoy while you can!
Totally love GTRs. Can't say I love the new M5. I haven't driven either. Harris says the transmission is better in the new M5. I've seen the styling pics for the interior and it is an improvement on the old M5. But you only have to listen to youtube's of the difference between an S6 and RS6 to see why the E60 M5 still sends shivers up the spine of any true petrol head. That race inspired V10 is such a fruity sound that it will go down in history as one of the all time great engine noises. The E91 M3 V8 is derived from the E60 V10, so you can imagine it has the same capabilities. Even going back to the old E39 V8, a vehicle that I have entertained buying a number of times, has the most amazing vocal range. All three of these cars will sound better than the new M5 because turbos kill engine noise. For me, and I know I'm moving into a completely different topic momentarily, the only turbo driven cars that sound good are boxer engines (Subaru) or five cylinders (Audi Quattro, RS3 and TTRS, and Focus ST and RS). That Kielder Forest sound with MCcrae charging hard in a RS Legacy. Him and Richard Burns. God bless you lads.
But back to the M5... it is a muted V8. I've driven a few M5s. The sound is so loud in an E39 that you get instantaneous wood. When you blip the throttle the whole car shudders from the motor's torque. It is a sensory experience.
And this is where we get back to the GTR. It is entirely that. I had an XR3i back in 86. It didn't have power steering, it didn't have power full stop, I was stupidly young, every turn of the wheel at low speed was a test of post pubescent strength, it was noisy, made of low grade plastics, understeered like a pig, had the occasional simultaneous excitement and terror of lift off oversteer, and was ultimately a piece of sh*t.
Well... I loved that car. By comparison the GTR is a grownups car, but it is a mentalist's car for grownups just like the XR3i was a mentalist's car for talentless juvenile tw*ts like I was.
The pleasure pain principle. Anything of worth is worth working for. Get the GTR. Suffer its annoyances around town, it's lack of visibility in narrow parking spaces, the reduced turning cycle, its no compromise 911 Turbo beating performance for £40,000.00 less than a 911 Turbo price tag.
Just imagine how the rewards out way these inconveniences. Because the right road will make you feel like a GOD. And those who matter on that road will look upon you with envy.
But back to the M5... it is a muted V8. I've driven a few M5s. The sound is so loud in an E39 that you get instantaneous wood. When you blip the throttle the whole car shudders from the motor's torque. It is a sensory experience.
And this is where we get back to the GTR. It is entirely that. I had an XR3i back in 86. It didn't have power steering, it didn't have power full stop, I was stupidly young, every turn of the wheel at low speed was a test of post pubescent strength, it was noisy, made of low grade plastics, understeered like a pig, had the occasional simultaneous excitement and terror of lift off oversteer, and was ultimately a piece of sh*t.
Well... I loved that car. By comparison the GTR is a grownups car, but it is a mentalist's car for grownups just like the XR3i was a mentalist's car for talentless juvenile tw*ts like I was.
The pleasure pain principle. Anything of worth is worth working for. Get the GTR. Suffer its annoyances around town, it's lack of visibility in narrow parking spaces, the reduced turning cycle, its no compromise 911 Turbo beating performance for £40,000.00 less than a 911 Turbo price tag.
Just imagine how the rewards out way these inconveniences. Because the right road will make you feel like a GOD. And those who matter on that road will look upon you with envy.
franki68 said:
sootyrumble said:
hairykrishna said:
j123 said:
Good video. I would be interested to hear what Chris thinks of a similarly thought provoking test a ways back where they compared the big heavy GT-R (a car which is light and agile next to the M5 in this context) and put it up against a Focus RS to wit which Autocar said on b-roads the GT_R could simply not keep up with the FORD nor would be as much fun as the FOrd. here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZL8uPemi3k&nor...
I wonder if chris would have another view on the GTR than his old colleague Frankel at Autocar. J
That's quite an odd video. They talk about the RS being faster because of 'confidence' while at the same time showing a bunch of footage of the GTR accelerating away from it out of corners like it's standing still. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZL8uPemi3k&nor...
I wonder if chris would have another view on the GTR than his old colleague Frankel at Autocar. J
Edited by j123 on Wednesday 15th February 22:20
To me its a silly video as under those conditions that RS would probably keep up with a 458 if limited to its speeds so does that make it the better car??
Hi there
A question on the GTR's handling at the limit where Chris Harris states the car fights him to straighten up. What does he mean?
Does he mean in a GTR when the rear let's go you should not steer into the slide and just make no correction on the steering because the car will simply collect it up?
If that's the case then what does steering into the slide in the GTR achieve? Hold the slide for longer maybe?
Just Want to know what he means by the car fights him?
A question on the GTR's handling at the limit where Chris Harris states the car fights him to straighten up. What does he mean?
Does he mean in a GTR when the rear let's go you should not steer into the slide and just make no correction on the steering because the car will simply collect it up?
If that's the case then what does steering into the slide in the GTR achieve? Hold the slide for longer maybe?
Just Want to know what he means by the car fights him?
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