RE: New Caterham road car - details
Discussion
BuzzLightyear said:
Hmm, the article states that it is the first all-new car in Caterham's history but the 21 has already been mentioned.
I've got the original 21 marketing brochure and it still appeals - will they use this as a sort of template for the new model?
Which is odd as the 21 shares more with a 7 then the current CSR doesI've got the original 21 marketing brochure and it still appeals - will they use this as a sort of template for the new model?
I think the CSR was also the first all-new car in caterhams history
Not that I've seen a Ginetta G40R on road or track, but they are now closer to £30k:
http://ginetta.com/cars_g40r
So that pitches it directly at the Caterham.
I would somehow feel dissapointed if the new Caterham had the Duractec as a powerplant, but I can't think of any other options? Who else is making a decent I4 ~2L these days?
http://ginetta.com/cars_g40r
So that pitches it directly at the Caterham.
I would somehow feel dissapointed if the new Caterham had the Duractec as a powerplant, but I can't think of any other options? Who else is making a decent I4 ~2L these days?
Stew2000 said:
Because this was a hit...
It's arguable that was killed by the Elise. And possibly by the owners having to finish developing the thing, judging by one owner's account I read on the web.If the new Elise isn't going to be a direct competitor (or crushingly better) things may be different this time.
AliV6 said:
Don't really think it's comparable to the Z4 or Porka. The build will never be as good. Price will be in the same bracket. I'd say it's aiming more around the Ginetta market.
I agree with this, and what others have said regarding creature comforts in this price bracket- where you will be competing with the likes of the Porsche Boxster. If people wanted a lower spec, more focused driver's car than a Boxster, they go for an Elise/Exige- which is also cheaper; or something more hardcore such as KTM X-Bow or Ariel Atom- both cars that I consider to be quite a niche market (toys for boys!)It will be interesting to see what pans out- suspect Caterham will go down the more hardcore route.
The man in charge of Caterham's new cars is Tony Shute. He managed the development of the S1 Elise and left Lotus to join Caterham last summer. Regardless of where the engine sits I expect to see a lot of parallels between the ethos of the early Elises and the new Caterham, given Tony's involvement.
E38Ross said:
gforceg said:
I'd like to think it might be something like the Caterham take on a Z4M (or Z3M maybe).
i suspect it will be far closer to an eliseotolith said:
It's arguable that was killed by the Elise. And possibly by the owners having to finish developing the thing, judging by one owner's account I read on the web.
I think so. There were a number of 2 seater 'sports' open top cars on or coming onto the market around that time such as the Alfa Spider, MX5 and the MGF, not to mention the Elise. All will have taken sales away from the 21, particularly as they were more practical and from main stream manufacturers. Caterham were looking to broaden the appeal of Caterham but the 21 had all the restrictions of the Seven because it was near as damnit a Seven, just with enclosed bodywork over the front wheels and a rigid boot lid.
One of the things that frustrates me about my Seven is the fixed side screens. Either on or off - no half way down! When they built the 21 it had fixed side windows which I think is very short sighted and would think alientated potential buyers. I'm sure it was something Jez Coates referenced as a major failing of the 21 when interviewed on that programme some years back about Caterham, under Simon Nearn's management, developing a new car with Reynard.
Such a shame that production ended so abruptly, I think it had good potential, if not for the wider market appeal Caterham were perhaps hoping for, but was a good compromise (for want of a better word). Hopefully Caterham will learn from the mistakes with the new one.
Cheers
SS
Edited by snapper seven on Thursday 16th February 14:03
Terry Barr said:
1000 Kgs? Hardly S1 Elise territory.
No, but they already produce a 2-seater sports car that is 200kg or so lighter than a S1 Elise, so have the opportunity to differentiate the new car somewhat from that.Edit for fat fingers...
Edited by ewenm on Thursday 16th February 14:12
HeMightBeBanned said:
The man in charge of Caterham's new cars is Tony Shute. He managed the development of the S1 Elise and left Lotus to join Caterham last summer. Regardless of where the engine sits I expect to see a lot of parallels between the ethos of the early Elises and the new Caterham, given Tony's involvement.
How so? It's front engined with a target weight of under 1000kgs (so read nearer 1000 than 700) It's more closely related to the current 'heavy comfort' Elise or indeed the planned new world Elise than the stripped out lightweight S1.Interesting that it's a 2015 target launch. Lets assume for a minute that the planets line up and Lotus pull the grand plan off and the new Elise comes in at 35k for a sub 1000kg 300bhp car (ok it won't but lets assume it happens) then the new Caterham will have to be bloody good not to end up another 21.
Ozzie Osmond said:
It's a brave decision by Caterham to target a market where Lotus and Ginetta are already struggling.
Whether or not you like Z4 or Boxster they do set the benchmark very high.
I think we're seeing the beginning of the struggle which will happen over the market Lotus has owned and which Caterham and Ginetta will fight over if Lotus leave it to go chasing the Z4 and Boxster.Whether or not you like Z4 or Boxster they do set the benchmark very high.
RTH said:
Potentially very good news, depends what expectations of production volume is ?Don't make the mistake of pricing it too high, the main reason they could not find any buyers for the 21.
There was another slight problem with the 21. It didn't fit tall people so they ruled out a large slice of their potential market with one foolish mistake.I remember driving down to test drive one and myself and the two other people who were there that day couldn't get in them so we had to walk away.
Most people I've spoken to thought they were stunning cars but too small.
If Caterham can produc something with a different look to a 7, a little bit more of a refined cabin space and retain the pure driving thrill of the 7 then I suspect they will tap into an existing and currently not well catered for market.
woof said:
Stew2000 said:
Because this was a hit...
The 21 - launched to rival the Elise - didn't work did it. Can't see anything new working.
The Caterham Seven - if it ain't broke ...
As otolith suggests, I expect Caterham to produce something to slot below the Z4/Boxster/new Elise and compete with the G40R. I hope there's enough market share for Ginetta and Caterham to sell a few cars but fear much of that market (~£25k-£30k 2/2+2 light(er) sports cars) will be grabbed by the GT86/BRZ.
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