RE: New Caterham road car - details
Discussion
As 1 in 4 Britons are obese, will normal people now be able to fit in the seats?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2081108/...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2081108/...
Tinykin said:
As 1 in 4 Britons are obese, will normal people now be able to fit in the seats?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2081108/...
Normal being the other 75%? I know a few erm... larger... gentlemen who drive 7s, the SV chassis enabled them to come into Caterham ownershiphttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2081108/...
otolith said:
It's arguable that was killed by the Elise. And possibly by the owners having to finish developing the thing, judging by one owner's account I read on the web.
If the new Elise isn't going to be a direct competitor (or crushingly better) things may be different this time.
otolith, can you point me at the owners account you're refering to please?If the new Elise isn't going to be a direct competitor (or crushingly better) things may be different this time.
The Seven isn't a car - it's a toy. I love them though but in truth, (if yr not racing one) is that it sits in the garage to be played with at the weekend.
Perfectly priced and targeted at the 30-50 yr old guy, who wants the thrill of a bike but is keen not to part ownership of his organs
Sales are steady and have been at the same level (around 500 cars a year).
I just don't see where there's room in the market place for another "toy" or if not a toy, how they can produce a car to rival a secondhand Porsche or anything else that's out there already.
Good luck to them though. It's not the same spirit of company that it was with Graham & Simon Nearn at the helm though.
Perfectly priced and targeted at the 30-50 yr old guy, who wants the thrill of a bike but is keen not to part ownership of his organs
Sales are steady and have been at the same level (around 500 cars a year).
I just don't see where there's room in the market place for another "toy" or if not a toy, how they can produce a car to rival a secondhand Porsche or anything else that's out there already.
Good luck to them though. It's not the same spirit of company that it was with Graham & Simon Nearn at the helm though.
I wonder where the money's coming from? I can't see anything other that the Seven that's making a profit for Caterham right now.
How is it Caterham's first new car? The 21, SV, CSR, SP/300.R. It'll be Caterhams 4th first new car then.
Oh, and mustn't forget the Karts. I hope they're not sailing too close to the wind.
Cynical me, I'm still Cynical. I just don't have a good feeling about the people running it now. I really really hope I can never say "I told you so".
How is it Caterham's first new car? The 21, SV, CSR, SP/300.R. It'll be Caterhams 4th first new car then.
Oh, and mustn't forget the Karts. I hope they're not sailing too close to the wind.
Cynical me, I'm still Cynical. I just don't have a good feeling about the people running it now. I really really hope I can never say "I told you so".
DonkeyApple said:
There was another slight problem with the 21. It didn't fit tall people so they ruled out a large slice of their potential market with one foolish mistake.
I remember driving down to test drive one and myself and the two other people who were there that day couldn't get in them so we had to walk away.
Most people I've spoken to thought they were stunning cars but too small.
If Caterham can produc something with a different look to a 7, a little bit more of a refined cabin space and retain the pure driving thrill of the 7 then I suspect they will tap into an existing and currently not well catered for market.
Probably going to get abuse for this, but I think the 21 is a horrible-looking thing, and that was a factor in its lack of success. Having not seen one in a while, I spotted one (which was standard and unmolested) on a recent trip to the Nurburgring (German-plated I think) and it looked absolutely laughable - badly-proportioned, with angles that just looked "wrong" and the build quality seemed terrible - massive panel gaps, badly put-together interior etc etc. I remember driving down to test drive one and myself and the two other people who were there that day couldn't get in them so we had to walk away.
Most people I've spoken to thought they were stunning cars but too small.
If Caterham can produc something with a different look to a 7, a little bit more of a refined cabin space and retain the pure driving thrill of the 7 then I suspect they will tap into an existing and currently not well catered for market.
I love the idea of a Caterham coupe, but they have to get the styling right otherwise it just won't have the appeal that it needs to succeed in what is definitely a tough part of the car market.
_Neal_ said:
DonkeyApple said:
There was another slight problem with the 21. It didn't fit tall people so they ruled out a large slice of their potential market with one foolish mistake.
I remember driving down to test drive one and myself and the two other people who were there that day couldn't get in them so we had to walk away.
Most people I've spoken to thought they were stunning cars but too small.
If Caterham can produc something with a different look to a 7, a little bit more of a refined cabin space and retain the pure driving thrill of the 7 then I suspect they will tap into an existing and currently not well catered for market.
Probably going to get abuse for this, but I think the 21 is a horrible-looking thing, and that was a factor in its lack of success. Having not seen one in a while, I spotted one (which was standard and unmolested) on a recent trip to the Nurburgring (German-plated I think) and it looked absolutely laughable - badly-proportioned, with angles that just looked "wrong" and the build quality seemed terrible - massive panel gaps, badly put-together interior etc etc. I remember driving down to test drive one and myself and the two other people who were there that day couldn't get in them so we had to walk away.
Most people I've spoken to thought they were stunning cars but too small.
If Caterham can produc something with a different look to a 7, a little bit more of a refined cabin space and retain the pure driving thrill of the 7 then I suspect they will tap into an existing and currently not well catered for market.
I love the idea of a Caterham coupe, but they have to get the styling right otherwise it just won't have the appeal that it needs to succeed in what is definitely a tough part of the car market.
I think that fast forward to today and Caterham has a different image, different people and now excellent experience of putting cars together themselves.
I very much suspect that this time around the results could and should be a lot different.
Why am I getting deja vu ? Was there not a very similar story from Caterham a while ago !?
edit- Thought so : http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
edit- Thought so : http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
Edited by gifdy on Thursday 16th February 15:00
gifdy said:
Why am I getting deja vu ? Was there not a very similar story from Caterham a while ago !?
edit- Thought so : http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
That was the SP300R, not a road car.edit- Thought so : http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
Edited by gifdy on Thursday 16th February 15:00
Everyone seems to be hoping for an Elise S1 type of car, but surely - with front engine and RWD - it's going to be more like an original Elan. And (I'm sorry to mention this) but isn't the Mk1 MX5 already a pretty good production-ized Elan. I know I have one. And have owned 7s before.
Now a stripped out MX5 sized car, in coupe or open with R500 power to weight sounds good to me.
I do hope they keep the interior bare and all that obvious stuff. But for me, the moment they decide to make a windscreen compulsory (and not an optional extra) it will have lost the essence of Caterham.
Now a stripped out MX5 sized car, in coupe or open with R500 power to weight sounds good to me.
I do hope they keep the interior bare and all that obvious stuff. But for me, the moment they decide to make a windscreen compulsory (and not an optional extra) it will have lost the essence of Caterham.
In case anyone hasn't noticed, you can't buy a new S1 Elise or a new NA MX-5 or a new S1 Elan. When this comes to market, you won't even be able to buy a new S2 Elise, and the S3 car may have moved far away from "raw, fun and basic".
That, I would guess is the point. They still seem to be able to sell new examples of the Caterham 7 despite that having been done before, by them, continuously, for decades.
That, I would guess is the point. They still seem to be able to sell new examples of the Caterham 7 despite that having been done before, by them, continuously, for decades.
otolith said:
In case anyone hasn't noticed, you can't buy a new S1 Elise or a new NA MX-5 or a new S1 Elan. When this comes to market, you won't even be able to buy a new S2 Elise, and the S3 car may have moved far away from "raw, fun and basic".
That, I would guess is the point. They still seem to be able to sell new examples of the Caterham 7 despite that having been done before, by them, continuously, for decades.
Come on, you know it's not a proper "new car" PH thread if people don't comment that "you can get <insert discontinued car> second hand for <insert preferred budget> and it'll be much better" That, I would guess is the point. They still seem to be able to sell new examples of the Caterham 7 despite that having been done before, by them, continuously, for decades.
Ferg said:
Nice idea, but I think I'd have a Fury or similar...
Part of the challenge for Caterham will be to get the new product in an equavalent market position to the 7 when compared to the others available.The Caterham 7 has the reputation as the "best" of the Lotus-7-esque vehicles and continues to command a premium for it (whether deserved or not, let's not get into that debate
). Part of that must be down to the "original 7" heritage which is something the new car won't have when compared with the Zolfe/Fury/G40R competition.Take 1 SV, put a coupe body on it, functioning doors, windows that go and down and a boot that opens.
Same engines, weight about 50kg more than the equivalent 7. Same price as 7, maybe 1000 quid more.
Job jobbed. Wtf Caterham didnt do this 20yrs ago, f
k knows.
An R500 coupe? Hell yes. Nothing else touches them to 100mph already, even with the aeros of a brick (yes, yes Atoms, etc. but they arent really normal motors), so give it a decent aero body and you are looking at 150+ speed and bugger all touching it.
For £40k or whatever an R500 costs.
Same engines, weight about 50kg more than the equivalent 7. Same price as 7, maybe 1000 quid more.
Job jobbed. Wtf Caterham didnt do this 20yrs ago, f
k knows.An R500 coupe? Hell yes. Nothing else touches them to 100mph already, even with the aeros of a brick (yes, yes Atoms, etc. but they arent really normal motors), so give it a decent aero body and you are looking at 150+ speed and bugger all touching it.
For £40k or whatever an R500 costs.
woof said:
The Seven isn't a car - it's a toy. I love them though but in truth, (if yr not racing one) is that it sits in the garage to be played with at the weekend.
I think that generalisation only applies to big girls blouses.My 1700 SuperSprint was my only car for 3 years and 30k miles. There were times the roof and racing harnesses were a pain and my wife complained about being covered in groceries (that wasn't the only thing she complained about being covered in) but it worked.
Even when I added the Scooby Turbo I still drove the 7 a lot. Once I added the S8 and 3 children (I knew I should have kept just covering her) I'll admit the 7 languished from time to time. Ah but it was quite a stable for a while there. 3 great cars. Oh and a split screen and bay window VW bus. Those were, in fact, the days my friend.
Anyway. I do accept I was quite heroic but people shouldn't be afraid of a 7 as an everyday car. I plan to import a 7 out here to Vancouver now, have it as an only car and find a woman who enjoys being covered. I'm test driving several at the moment. Women that is.
Edited by ItsJustARide on Thursday 16th February 16:14
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