RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5

[El Guapo]

A great car, no doubt, but I can't help imagining how much better it would be if it weighed 250kg less.

[torres del paine]

I'd buy it for the looks alone (far more appealing the Mercedes E63 and deathly dull Audi A4/5/6). It looks stunning in those shots.

[j123]

MrTappets said:

Manufacturers need to stop listening to peoples' opinions. "People" generally have no idea what would make a good car. I'd put good money on any customer survey for a big fast comfortable car being turning up with "Bigger, faster, comfortabler!"

BUT of course we can still expect Chris Harris to have little if anything negative to say about all these peoples cars that come out. Maybe we need more critical analysis of these cars?

DOES anyone else agree? j

[LuS1fer]

I can't tell you you're wrong as I liked the M5 2 generations ago and even came to respect the last generation V10 M5 but this? I couldn't ever look at those lines, that bulk, that girth and ever get past those looks. The 7 series is even worse - looks like a car made for an elephant to drive.

I's not just BMW of course but they do seem to be revelling in size these days and they're starting to make our Mondeo MK IV look petite.

[E38Ross]

LuS1fer said:

I can't tell you you're wrong as I liked the M5 2 generations ago and even came to respect the last generation V10 M5 but this? I couldn't ever look at those lines, that bulk, that girth and ever get past those looks. The 7 series is even worse - looks like a car made for an elephant to drive.

I's not just BMW of course but they do seem to be revelling in size these days and they're starting to make our Mondeo MK IV look petite.

isn't the mondeo a 3 series rival? if it is, then i don't think it's any smaller than that; and then it's a case of "shock horror: 3 series rival is smaller than a 5 or 7 series", no? that's not meant to sound arrogant or anything, just curious. don't see why you're comparing an M5 (i.e. 5 series shape) to a mondeo, of course the 5 is going to be bigger, it's meant to be!!

i'm willing to bet though that 99% of paying customers and potential buyers of the new 3 or 5 will be glad of the extra leg room. regards to width, you'd be amazed what it does for the inside of a car. the feeling of space in the 7 is getting on for hilarious when compared to a far smaller 7, and i don't just mean leg room. and i'm sure BMW would rather please 99% of paying customers and not worry much about the 1% of paying customers much plus those who would never buy into the brand anyway

[aucklander]

jnoiles said:

That was an awful read. The run on sentences, the random thoughts, the use of exclamation marks. It reads like it was written by a 15 year old English as a second language student. Piss poor excuse for journalism. You got given an M5 and told to go play with it in Wales. At least make an effort man.

This^
I know internet is changing the face of journalism and blah blah blah but there is no way something like that would get past the editor of a printed magazine. Just because the internet has unlimited space this does not mean you can fill it with poorly written prose that fails to even impart meaningful information let alone entertain readers.

[LuS1fer]

E38Ross said:

isn't the mondeo a 3 series rival? if it is, then i don't think it's any smaller than that; and then it's a case of "shock horror: 3 series rival is smaller than a 5 or 7 series", no? that's not meant to sound arrogant or anything, just curious. don't see why you're comparing an M5 (i.e. 5 series shape) to a mondeo, of course the 5 is going to be bigger, it's meant to be!!

i'm willing to bet though that 99% of paying customers and potential buyers of the new 3 or 5 will be glad of the extra leg room. regards to width, you'd be amazed what it does for the inside of a car. the feeling of space in the 7 is getting on for hilarious when compared to a far smaller 7, and i don't just mean leg room. and i'm sure BMW would rather please 99% of paying customers and not worry much about the 1% of paying customers much plus those who would never buy into the brand anyway

No, the Mondeo is old Granada size.
Actual dimensions: Mondeo/F10/3 series
Length - 4778/4899/4531
Width - 1886/1860/1817
Height - 1500/1464/1421

The 7 series is 5072/1902/1479.

Of course I'm not suggesting the Mondeo as a competitor for the 5 series given it only goes up to a 2.2 engine, I was merely making comparison with the enormity of a car that is not an ideal size for B road burning.

[E38Ross]

LuS1fer said:

No, the Mondeo is old Granada size.
Actual dimensions: Mondeo/F10/3 series
Length - 4778/4899/4531
Width - 1886/1860/1817
Height - 1500/1464/1421

The 7 series is 5072/1902/1479.

Of course I'm not suggesting the Mondeo as a competitor for the 5 series given it only goes up to a 2.2 engine, I was merely making comparison with the enormity of a car that is not an ideal size for B road burning.

but the mondeo is wider than them both, last time i checked length or height don't matter a great deal on B road burning.

so really, this is all Fords fault and yours for buying such a fat lard arse of a car

ps - only jokin' fella

[LuS1fer]

You're not entirely wrong but mine was a third the price of a BMW. Despite that, 2.0 vs 2.0, the Mondeo is 100kilos lighter.

[g3org3y]

MRCC said:

Agree if Jaguar can bring a lighter 4 door performance saloon to the market in the guise of an XFR-S, it will be a big advantage to them and make for a great Gentleman's hooligan car. The launch of the heavyweight power saloons has gone on long enough. Come on trim the fat!

But is these any genuine demand for this (apart from the PH masses who in most cases are not the target audience)?

[E38Ross]

LuS1fer said:

You're not entirely wrong but mine was a third the price of a BMW. Despite that, 2.0 vs 2.0, the Mondeo is 100kilos lighter.

hang on, 1/3 of the price? since when is a new 2.0 mondeo 1/3 the price of a 2.0 3 series (or even 5 series?). please don't tell me you're talking new vs 2nd hand prices. if you are, you're mondeo is more expensive than a rolls royce

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190643338344?clk_rvr_id=...

so is it a 3er rival or a 5er? surely a 3?

[0a]

It sort of seems like it's a bit of an 'M7' in size and driving terms - very impressive for the size of car but massive.

[LuS1fer]

E38Ross said:

LuS1fer said:

You're not entirely wrong but mine was a third the price of a BMW. Despite that, 2.0 vs 2.0, the Mondeo is 100kilos lighter.

hang on, 1/3 of the price? since when is a new 2.0 mondeo 1/3 the price of a 2.0 3 series (or even 5 series?). please don't tell me you're talking new vs 2nd hand prices. if you are, you're mondeo is more expensive than a rolls royce

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190643338344?clk_rvr_id=...

so is it a 3er rival or a 5er? surely a 3?

You're thinking list price. I got mine brand new in 2009 from a Ford dealer for £12k (not sure what a 5 is now).
I wouldn't say they were strictly rivals at all - it's much bigger than a 3 but still cheaper on price and as big as a 5 but vastly cheaper. Whether they are "rivals" depends on how many people you want to put in one. I can't fit my 3 children in a 3 so it's not a rival but might be if I only had two if you see what I mean....but I'd still be paying a lot more...possibly not true if we're talking about diesels.

Obviously this will all evaporate once they launch the new Mondeo and we all have to pay full price for a while....

[E38Ross]

60RK said:

Reading most of the above posts, I am wondering, how many of you have test driven the F10?

I have. Within 15 minutes I knew I had to have it.

At that stage I knew nothing of the 'piped in engine noise'

I did not notice it.

I have owned E39 M5, two E46 M3's, a E92 M3 and two E93 M3's.

The F10 is by far the fastest long range cruiser, I had it for a day and covered circa 200 miles in it.

I take delivery of mine on 1st March, next week, and cannot wait.

For all that are so negative, you will buy one of these several years down the road, it is a natural progression from the E39, E60 etc. I am guessing a lot of posts are from people who, dare I say it, could not afford one, indeed I cannot really but what the hell.

interesting about not being able to tell about the sound. i would really wonder what would have happened if BMW never told a single soul about the noise thing whether this thing would be getting better reviews.

as chris harris said it sounds quite good, and you shouldn't let the sound thing get in the way of you buying a fantastic car.

[Trommel]

E38Ross said:

interesting about not being able to tell about the sound. i would really wonder what would have happened if BMW never told a single soul about the noise thing whether this thing would be getting better reviews.

as chris harris said it sounds quite good, and you shouldn't let the sound thing get in the way of you buying a fantastic car.

It shows that BMW either no longer have a clue (hardly likely), or no longer care, about what a car like that should be about.

If you don't think it appalling you should question why you're interested in one in the first place.

[E38Ross]

LuS1fer said:

E38Ross said:

LuS1fer said:

You're not entirely wrong but mine was a third the price of a BMW. Despite that, 2.0 vs 2.0, the Mondeo is 100kilos lighter.

hang on, 1/3 of the price? since when is a new 2.0 mondeo 1/3 the price of a 2.0 3 series (or even 5 series?). please don't tell me you're talking new vs 2nd hand prices. if you are, you're mondeo is more expensive than a rolls royce

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190643338344?clk_rvr_id=...

so is it a 3er rival or a 5er? surely a 3?

You're thinking list price. I got mine brand new in 2009 from a Ford dealer for £12k (not sure what a 5 is now).
I wouldn't say they were strictly rivals at all - it's much bigger than a 3 but still cheaper on price and as big as a 5 but vastly cheaper. Whether they are "rivals" depends on how many people you want to put in one. I can't fit my 3 children in a 3 so it's not a rival but might be if I only had two if you see what I mean....but I'd still be paying a lot more...possibly not true if we're talking about diesels.

Obviously this will all evaporate once they launch the new Mondeo and we all have to pay full price for a while....

so hang on a minute. you're saying it's too big, then you're it's too small because you can't fit 3 kids in at once? i'd have thought people such as yourself who would otherwise have not been able to get a 3 series for the same reason would be quite pleased about the increase in size?



Trommel - i said earlier i think it's rather appalling, noise is a large part of the drama, but i'm not sure it'd put me off buying the car. why not? stop it coming through the speakers and buy an after market exhaust?

st noises haven't put people off buying performance cars, look at the 911 997 turbo, it sounds st. at least BMW did SOMETHING to try to make up for it....admittedly in a shockingly st way

for me, it wouldn't put me off the car, because it's something that could be easily sorted. i'd be more interested in how quick it is, how comfortable it is, how nice the interior is, how roomy it is, what it's like to live with in traffic, around town, on the motorway, and how good it likes to be thrashed on open A and B roads. if it does all of those superbly with the the annoyance of a st noise coming through the speakers, i could live with that, and soon unplug it and get a nice exhaust.

you get a nice noise and the then what the M5 is all about....waftalicious with plenty of schnell.

[Trommel]

The couple I've seen so far sound pretty good from outside.

[jbi]

0a said:

It sort of seems like it's a bit of an 'M7' in size and driving terms - very impressive for the size of car but massive.

read the thread... this has already been discussed, the car is roughly the same size as it's predecessor and a long way off the size of the 7 series.

[Robsti]

BMWs are really growing in size!
Saw a new 3 today and it looked HUGE.

[smashy]

Boy oh boy sat in one when the F10 was new.

It is BIG.

Large pillars, high window line,how anyone can drive one of these in the south east is beyond me and I have thrown mercedes vans around the west end in my youth.