RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5
Discussion
kambites said:
jbi said:
No it's not... it's about 1 inch longer than the old M5 and still about 10 inches shorter than the E38 and 13 inches shorter than the current 7 series
Length makes little difference to how a car drives, it's width that matters. Do you have the width figures? Current M5 74.5 in
E38 7 series 73.3 in
Current 7 Series 74.9 in
Ford mondeo 74.3 in
Ford taurus 76.2 in
Width is a good thing... it adds to the cars stability and improves cornering
I nominate the above for POTW.
On topic, a great article, and nice to see someone clearly stating their own opinion rather than pleasing the masses. I do like the fact it is still outwardly as subtle as the E39 M5, but the 7-series dimensions are just typical of the direction all cars seem to be heading in (the new RS4 seems the same size as the outgoing RS6, although I've not checked the numbers). I hope Toyota/Subaru starting the 'less is more' approach (as mentioned above) with the GT86/BRZ carries on
jnoiles said:
That was an awful read. The run on sentences, the random thoughts, the use of exclamation marks. It reads like it was written by a 15 year old English as a second language student. Piss poor excuse for journalism. You got given an M5 and told to go play with it in Wales. At least make an effort man.
Agree, it were written a bit $hitly to be honest.dave_s13 said:
Agree, it were written a bit $hitly to be honest.
People won't agree with me, and I quite possibly have no right to say this considering I don't pay to read this site, but I thought that was par for the course for Dan Trent. I find his writing style painful to read. The problem is, he obviously gets the best cars to test - so I want to read what he has to say!I for one liked the article - I'm not a proof reader or editor and am fairly simple so there you go.
I think it's only 14mm wider than the last version so not a huge leap. You're (various) correct that the Welsh B roads are not getting any wider. However, some main markets for this have lots of space to build new roads or already have wide roads (Middle East, USA, China?)
I feel the best reason for a turbo'd engine is not just for usability (less peaky delivery) or CO2 but touring range.
Not heard what the synthesised exhaust note sounds like so can't comment. Hands up on here how many have heard it? Oh, what's that?
I think it's only 14mm wider than the last version so not a huge leap. You're (various) correct that the Welsh B roads are not getting any wider. However, some main markets for this have lots of space to build new roads or already have wide roads (Middle East, USA, China?)
I feel the best reason for a turbo'd engine is not just for usability (less peaky delivery) or CO2 but touring range.
Not heard what the synthesised exhaust note sounds like so can't comment. Hands up on here how many have heard it? Oh, what's that?
Pumpsmynads said:
I for one liked the article - I'm not a proof reader or editor and am fairly simple so there you go.
I think it's only 14mm wider than the last version so not a huge leap. You're (various) correct that the Welsh B roads are not getting any wider. However, some main markets for this have lots of space to build new roads or already have wide roads (Middle East, USA, China?)
Indeed, I think what people are forgetting here is that this is fundamentally a family saloon car which is built to carry 4 people in relative comfort.I think it's only 14mm wider than the last version so not a huge leap. You're (various) correct that the Welsh B roads are not getting any wider. However, some main markets for this have lots of space to build new roads or already have wide roads (Middle East, USA, China?)
Expectedly it's width compares with other family saloons such as the ford Mondeo.
Pumpsmynads said:
I for one liked the article - I'm not a proof reader or editor and am fairly simple so there you go.
I think it's only 14mm wider than the last version so not a huge leap. You're (various) correct that the Welsh B roads are not getting any wider. However, some main markets for this have lots of space to build new roads or already have wide roads (Middle East, USA, China?)
I feel the best reason for a turbo'd engine is not just for usability (less peaky delivery) or CO2 but touring range.
Not heard what the synthesised exhaust note sounds like so can't comment. Hands up on here how many have heard it? Oh, what's that?
I dont really care what it sounds like TBH - Engine noise synthesised via a computer outputted via a speaker is always going to be wI think it's only 14mm wider than the last version so not a huge leap. You're (various) correct that the Welsh B roads are not getting any wider. However, some main markets for this have lots of space to build new roads or already have wide roads (Middle East, USA, China?)
I feel the best reason for a turbo'd engine is not just for usability (less peaky delivery) or CO2 but touring range.
Not heard what the synthesised exhaust note sounds like so can't comment. Hands up on here how many have heard it? Oh, what's that?
k 
I'm sure there must be a way to switch it off tho, so cant be all bad. Plus I'm sure a stainless exhaust will make it sound even better - if you're willing to put up with a little more boomyness i imagine.
Interesting thought provoking article. I guess in some ways it's an (admittedly extreme) example of the fact that you can very often have more fun in a relatively underpowered car.
Many are the times I've had the opportunity to hustle a small underpowered hatchback along some familiar country lanes ...... and surprised myself at the degree of absolute fun to be had from squeezing every last ounce of performance from it's little engine a tyres.
Sure ... driving something with a lot of grunt is fun too ..... but factor in some bulk and finding the fun can sometimes be a tad more difficult.
Many are the times I've had the opportunity to hustle a small underpowered hatchback along some familiar country lanes ...... and surprised myself at the degree of absolute fun to be had from squeezing every last ounce of performance from it's little engine a tyres.
Sure ... driving something with a lot of grunt is fun too ..... but factor in some bulk and finding the fun can sometimes be a tad more difficult.
kambites said:
jbi said:
Width is a good thing... it adds to the cars stability and improves cornering
That's width to height ratio, not outright width. The vast majority of modern cars are wider than I find comfortable when driving at any speed on our roads.
when the M series first came to be they were all about a cars ability to communicate with its driver in a rewarding way for the driver and the car (yes they have feelings too)
but the bigger they get the less they achieve this....
with every successive vsariant has come that additional level of cocooning that makes the power/handling/speed relationaship less direct and personal....the car and you dont touch directly
you watch the world go by in a machine like this and have a video game like attachement to it
but the bigger they get the less they achieve this....
with every successive vsariant has come that additional level of cocooning that makes the power/handling/speed relationaship less direct and personal....the car and you dont touch directly
you watch the world go by in a machine like this and have a video game like attachement to it
jason61c said:
anything fast said:
THE BEST 4 DOOR CAR MONEY CAN BUY.. ON BALANCE OF POWER, SPEED, QUALITY AND PRICE, NOTHING COMES CLOSE IMO! LOVE IT!
Erm, GTR?If they did, (as odd as that sounds) I think the M5 would be a better all-rounder, if not as nimble or capable.
kambites said:
jbi said:
That is something we all need to get used to due to tougher side impact crash tests.
Possibly but we don't have to like it. It's something the manufacturers have to address in order to sell us their product.
It's not for the consumer to fit into what's easy for the manufacturer - a frustrated need is the mother of innovation.
Dan has already admitted he has an AMG bias. This car review is written as if it's the only high performance saloon you can buy.
Then theres the performance
You then contradict yourself:
The only definition left is 'power' despite the fact it's hardly any more powerful than the AMG and has LESS power than the old RS6, when up until now every German rocketship exec has had more power than the last one from it's rivals. Look at it another way, the E60 had 107bhp more than the E39 yet this 'only' has 50bhp more than the E60. If anything the M5's power is starting to level out rather than get more 'extreme'..
Then to smokescreen the argument further, everyone seems to be more concerned about the faux engine noise than they are about how the bloody thing drives. It's a high performance V8 with a fake V8 sound, at least it has the credentials to back it up. Yes a proper sports exhaust would sound better but its not like they are playing V8 noises over a 4 pot diesel! Plus you can fit a loud exhaust if you want to anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no M5 fanboy. In an ideal world i'd prefer the N/A V10, a manual gearbox and it to be a bit lighter. But most of the critisism here you can also aim at the AMG or the XFR.
Dan sounds to me like you should get a E90 M3 saloon and put an M5 badge on the back. It would suit you perfectly
article said:
everything about it exaggerated to the point of parody
article said:
in sheer size terms it feels more like an S63 or XJ Supersport
Yet its about 2cm longer and wider than an E63. In width terms thats 1% wider, ONE PERCENT. Hardly worthy of the level of hyperbole above!Then theres the performance
article said:
that lunatic, four-door Nissan GT-Rstyle thrust stands out more for the sheer incongruity of it.
It's about keeping things relative. The M5 has always been about combining subtle looks (similar to it's non-M counterparts) with class leading power, performance and handling. As far as I can see the F10 M5 does exactly that, so how the hell can it be incongruous?!You then contradict yourself:
article said:
M5s used to be about covert, useable performance. The new one takes it to extremes but the extremes seem to be all it's interested in.
followed byarticle said:
it's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3
Id say the GT3 is a far more 'extreme' car than the turbo in my view. Most reviews i've read say the F10 is actually softer than the E60 so how do you conclude it's only interested in extremes?The only definition left is 'power' despite the fact it's hardly any more powerful than the AMG and has LESS power than the old RS6, when up until now every German rocketship exec has had more power than the last one from it's rivals. Look at it another way, the E60 had 107bhp more than the E39 yet this 'only' has 50bhp more than the E60. If anything the M5's power is starting to level out rather than get more 'extreme'..
Then to smokescreen the argument further, everyone seems to be more concerned about the faux engine noise than they are about how the bloody thing drives. It's a high performance V8 with a fake V8 sound, at least it has the credentials to back it up. Yes a proper sports exhaust would sound better but its not like they are playing V8 noises over a 4 pot diesel! Plus you can fit a loud exhaust if you want to anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no M5 fanboy. In an ideal world i'd prefer the N/A V10, a manual gearbox and it to be a bit lighter. But most of the critisism here you can also aim at the AMG or the XFR.
Dan sounds to me like you should get a E90 M3 saloon and put an M5 badge on the back. It would suit you perfectly
Edited by Kong on Tuesday 21st February 17:14
Kong said:
But most of the critisism here you can also aim at the AMG or the XFR.
I don't see it like that. I would never criticise an American muscle car for rolling around in the corners. I wouldn't criticise an entry level Elise for it's straight line performance over 100mph.The character of what an AMG Merc or an R Jag should be, is captured very well in the latest models. The character of what many people expect from a M BMW is not captured as well in the latest M5.
BMW rely on their brand prestige and history but with that they have to accept that if they move away from the qualities that defined that brand then a minority of vocal people will criticise it.
Go look at a nice e34 m5 then tell me this new m5 is a looker, Immense car all the same but it's a bit err, I could live with the ugly front of a 1m because it's the new m3 to me,small and compact relatively speaking, this new m5 is plain ugly does nothing for me in the looks department, it's all a bit irrelevant any way as I would never have that sort of cash to get one, would still like a drive though, but it's ugly ugly ugly, will bmw ever make a good looking car again ? Surely there is some hope down the line.....
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff