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MC Bodge
3,775 posts
44 months
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Zod said: Yes. Until you've experienced it over time, you will not get it. I've experienced motorcycles with fairly large power and they are excessive.
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matthias73
1,673 posts
19 months
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Baryonyx said: Perhaps the world is finally coming round to realising that the notion of 'bigger, heavier and with more power' does not make a good driving experience and that for day to day use in the UK, and most of Europe, it's useless. You'd be better off punting a Charade GTTi down those back roads than a huge, bulky M5!
Perhaps Audi are the only ones who are 'getting it' with their ambiguous end to the power wars (see earlier PH article). AMG have always just done what they want, so I cannot criticise too highly but this just looks like the M Division stumbling; reacting to market critics of one of the best sports saloons of all time and producing this car, which just seems to be getting it all wrong. I worried when I heard about that stupid idea of piped-in, simulated engine noise that this M5 was descending into parody.
Nissan are undoubtedly the kings of making massive cars go extremely fast round every corner, on any type of road in a car that you can live with day to day. The war is over, Germany. Ve vill be back, in zwanzig years time.
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Zod
23,270 posts
127 months
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MC Bodge said: I've experienced motorcycles with fairly large power and they are excessive. Cars are not bikes.
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sleep envy
59,288 posts
118 months
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Zod said: MC Bodge said: Cars have become too big. The fast variants are also excessive for normal roads, unfortunately.... 550bhp in a saloon car sounds good, but is it really that useful? Yes. Until you've experienced it over time, you will not get it. I've experienced 380 odd bhp over time - you're well into three figures pulling the redline just in third gear. There gets a point that above a certain bhp any more become pointless as you can't exploit it on the road either without risking a lengthy ban or having a massive off.
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Zod
23,270 posts
127 months
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For me, it's more about power-to-weight and the effect that has on acceleration at legal(ish) speeds.
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sleep envy
59,288 posts
118 months
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Zod said: the effect that has on acceleration at legal(ish) speeds. all 2 secs of it a 280/tonne  know what you mean though
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Zod
23,270 posts
127 months
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sleep envy said: all 2 secs of it a 280/tonne know what you mean though That's the most fun you ever get in road driving these days.
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jbi
5,283 posts
73 months
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sleep envy said: Zod said: MC Bodge said: Cars have become too big. The fast variants are also excessive for normal roads, unfortunately.... 550bhp in a saloon car sounds good, but is it really that useful? Yes. Until you've experienced it over time, you will not get it. I've experienced 380 odd bhp over time - you're well into three figures pulling the redline just in third gear. There gets a point that above a certain bhp any more become pointless as you can't exploit it on the road either without risking a lengthy ban or having a massive off. you obviously need more training/experience then  I have been in 800hp cars that, while requiring a healthy amount of respect, are an absolute hoot to drive at perfectly legal speeds
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Kawasicki
1,514 posts
104 months
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jbi said: you obviously need more training/experience then I have been in 800hp cars that, while requiring a healthy amount of respect, are an absolute hoot to drive at perfectly legal speeds Were you living on the Isle of Man, or in Germany? Seriously, did you just put a brick under the accelerator, or were you so drunk that you you were struggling to maintain 60mph? Maybe it's just me, but to have a hoot in a 50bhp car on a normal B road I would have to be spending a lot of the time over the limit.
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jbi
5,283 posts
73 months
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Kawasicki said: jbi said: you obviously need more training/experience then I have been in 800hp cars that, while requiring a healthy amount of respect, are an absolute hoot to drive at perfectly legal speeds Were you living on the Isle of Man, or in Germany? Seriously, did you just put a brick under the accelerator, or were you so drunk that you you were struggling to maintain 60mph? Maybe it's just me, but to have a hoot in a 50bhp car on a normal B road I would have to be spending a lot of the time over the limit. No.... it's all about balance and throttle control, fast into corners, holding the line than lots of horsepower to propel you away at warp speed. The trick is simply down to knowing when, and how much to squeeze the throttle. If you end up in the hedge, you obviously gave it too much of the beans
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Kawasicki
1,514 posts
104 months
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jbi said: Kawasicki said: jbi said: you obviously need more training/experience then I have been in 800hp cars that, while requiring a healthy amount of respect, are an absolute hoot to drive at perfectly legal speeds Were you living on the Isle of Man, or in Germany? Seriously, did you just put a brick under the accelerator, or were you so drunk that you you were struggling to maintain 60mph? Maybe it's just me, but to have a hoot in a 50bhp car on a normal B road I would have to be spending a lot of the time over the limit. No.... it's all about balance and throttle control, fast into corners, holding the line than lots of horsepower to propel you away at warp speed. The trick is simply down to knowing when, and how much to squeeze the throttle. If you end up in the hedge, you obviously gave it too much of the beans We obviously have different definitions of fast. Warp speed? What? Like 60mph? How much to squeeze the throttle on a powerful car? Not much. On reflection, you're joking, right?
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jbi
5,283 posts
73 months
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I'm guessing you and me have vastly different opinions on what counts as fun then.
For the record, no I'm not joking.
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MC Bodge
3,775 posts
44 months
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Of course, taming a beast-like vehicle that threatens to throw you off into a hedge at all times can be fun, but if this can be provided by something with X units of power within the realistic boundaries of the UK roads, then something with X+200 units of power that can do similar and be no quicker from A-B (in the real world) may be described as slightly unnecessary. By all means own something like that because you (understandably) want one, but don't try to justify it
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Kawasicki
1,514 posts
104 months
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jbi said: I'm guessing you and me have vastly different opinions on what counts as fun then.
For the record, no I'm not joking. Yes we do have differing opinions, but I'm happy you obviously enjoy your driving too.
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E38Ross
10,502 posts
81 months
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Some people will never understand the desire for big power outputs. That's fair enough, but to say it's pointless without experiencing it over a long period of time and to claim its pointless is ridiculous IMO
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MC Bodge
3,775 posts
44 months
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Zod said: sleep envy said: all 2 secs of it a 280/tonne know what you mean though That's the most fun you ever get in road driving these days. I'd argue that there's more fun to be had threading a bike/car down a tight, winding lane than holding the throttle wide open on a straight, although I am partial to it occasionally.
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sleep envy
59,288 posts
118 months
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jbi said: you obviously need more training/experience then I have been in 800hp cars that, while requiring a healthy amount of respect, are an absolute hoot to drive at perfectly legal speeds always up for more training, I think I've had enough experience after 20 years though you'd expect a car with 800bhp to have a sorted chassis so not too sure you'd get anywhere remotely near the edge of 'excitement' at <70mph - 993 turbo or GTR spring to mind, both very capable cars indeed but just dull until I opened the taps which means you're into three figures again if anything less power and less grip is more fun IME, eg 205
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sleep envy
59,288 posts
118 months
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jbi said: than lots of horsepower to propel you away at warp speed. all the way to 60 mph...
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E38Ross
10,502 posts
81 months
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sleep envy said: jbi said: than lots of horsepower to propel you away at warp speed. all the way to 60 mph... Yes, you've never gone above 60. Some of the great roads around here in Brecon beacons are twisty but lovely and open, no harm going well north of that. As I said, some people will never understand the speed thing. What I find odd that these people still like ferraris lambos etc
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sleep envy
59,288 posts
118 months
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E38Ross said: Yes, you've never gone above 60.
Some of the great roads around here in Brecon beacons are twisty but lovely and open, no harm going well north of that. As I said, some people will never understand the speed thing. What I find odd that these people still like ferraris lambos etc Please. You're arguing for arguing sake. Care to show me where I've said I've not gone above 60? I'm more than happy to open the trottle having been to a number of Vmax events so please don't suggest I don't understand 'the speed thing', there's getting north of the speed limit and then there's getting really north of it.
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