RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5
Discussion
NomduJour said:
goldblum said:
Presumably the fake engine noise can be overriden by music anyway, but can you switch it off completely?
As above, you can't unless you pull the fuse for the amp (thereby losing the radio etc.) or have the right diagnostic equipment.Whether it sounds good or not, the principle is intrinsically awful. It's about as contrary to what an M GmbH-developed car should be about as is possible.
E65Ross said:
RoverP6B said:
The car needs to be about 18 inches shorter in length and a couple of inches narrower than it is, for starters. Swap the electric heated leather front seats for unheated manual cloth-trimmed buckets in c/f shells. Ordinary cloth will suffice for the rear. The M3 DCT outsold the manual because (a) the manual wasn't that good and (b) the people who buy a 1700kg V8 saloon nowadays are lazy. Strip the turbos off the engine, you might be able to make the engine itself lighter with thinner walls. Get rid of iDrive, get rid of the e-Brake, get rid of the DCT. Touring - the M5 Touring seemed to sell well enough, I certainly saw far more of them than the saloon - and, as I said, the Audi and Merc wagons, with torquey engines which perhaps suit the estate better than a stroked-out F1 motor with a SMG, mostly outsell the saloons (in Audi's case so much so that they don't even bother making saloon versions any more). Smaller wheels, smaller brakes, less unsprung weight, narrower tyres, less grip - all of these would make the M5 a better car. It has too much power, too much weight and too much grip. The E39 M5 was, truth be told, too heavy, but it was really the E90 M3 that was its successor (and that was much too heavy for an M3, though at least it was lighter than the E39) - and the F10 is an unforgivable lard-arse.
I'm giving up. There's no reasoning with you. You clearly think the M5 is a road racer not a Super saloon. 18 inches shorter? Yeah, that'll make it a great family saloon where it's a complete squeeze!
You don't understand what the M5 is about in the slightest.
For that you do need to buy something older and which will provide the thrills I think we seek. Unfortunately the modern car buyer is not really after that sort of car - they are more than likely to buy this sort of car for other reasons and consequently want the fancy toys and inevitable weight that comes with it.
Are the majority of M5/M6 drivers actually "driving people"? I am not sure, but the spec is what the majority of these sorts of buyers want and BMW is only too happy to oblige.
Now if Toyota or someone similar could make something akin to a 4 seat GT86 wagon...
E65Ross said:
I'm giving up. There's no reasoning with you. You clearly think the M5 is a road racer not a Super saloon. 18 inches shorter? Yeah, that'll make it a great family saloon where it's a complete squeeze!
You don't understand what the M5 is about in the slightest.
Compare the F10 to the E28 and you'll see what I mean. Despite a longer engine, the E28 is very much shorter. OK, crash safety has advanced, but there's no need for the vast amount of dead space you have in the F10's engine bay, no need for such a big boot, nor such appallingly bad packaging. It's too big. Very few people buy them as daily drivers anyway, but a car with less tyre width, less weight, less power and less bulk would also consume vastly less fuel while going pretty much as quickly. "Power makes you fast in a straight line, lightness makes you fast everywhere", as Colin Chapman said. There is no excuse in this day and age for any car short of a Rolls-Royce or Range Rover weighing two tons. That a fast 5-series does weigh asnearasdammit 2 tons just goes to show how far the rot has spread. Width-wise, apart from anything, the tunnel is MASSIVE - why? Because of the blasted DCT, which is nothing more than unnecessary bulk, weight, complexity and detachment. Plus, DCTs have a terrible reliability record, but when did you last hear of a car failing to proceed because of a non-functioning manual 'box?You don't understand what the M5 is about in the slightest.
I'm not a serious hardcore petrolhead, I've never done a track day, unless you count hurling my father's old ex-demo and highly tuned Mk2 Humber Sceptre 1750 around the former RNAS East Haven, near Carnoustie, back in the 1970s (when the runways and perimeter track were still in situ), but I long for a return to simple, enjoyable, fixable cars. Also, given a choice between an automatic gearbox in my car and a walk in the rain, I'd take the walk in the rain. Every auto I've driven (including the latest 8-speed ZF 'box) has been deeply, truly horrible. If it hasn't got a manual, I won't buy it and I'll do everything possible to avoid driving it. You'd be surprised how many people feel the same - it's only at the prestige/performance end of the market, where everyone's fed the same bullsh!t line about high technology (especially if F1-derived - yes, I'm talking to YOU, Ferrari and McLaren, with your entirely-unrelated-to-F1 DCTs!) and how their car will depreciate far more if it doesn't have the DCT/MCT/PDK/SH!T, and possibly that the buyers are simply too lazy to make their own gearchanges or heel'n'toe, that manuals no longer dominate. All they want now is clockwise for right, anticlockwise for left, right foot to go, left foot to stop. That's all there is to it and, frankly, they may as well be on a PlayStation.
Regarding the M5's nannies: I was asking a question about something raised in that MotorTrend video, which said the car shuts down if the rear wheels are turning and the fronts are not. This isn't likely to be the case when oversteering, but it could potentially kick in if one were doing a stupid childish smoky burnout - which, incidentally, is something I've never wanted to do in any car.
Edited by RoverP6B on Wednesday 5th February 19:46
-Z- said:
Guys I've found RoverP6B's daily driver:
Rover this weighs 1400kg, do you honestly think you could make it a daily driver for use with wife/kids for only an extra 100-200kg? You have got to be kidding.
And trolling with ridiculous posts about cars that simply cannot and will not be made because no one would buy them including him. Rover this weighs 1400kg, do you honestly think you could make it a daily driver for use with wife/kids for only an extra 100-200kg? You have got to be kidding.
RoverP6B said:
The car needs to be about 18 inches shorter in length and a couple of inches narrower than it is, for starters. Swap the electric heated leather front seats for unheated manual cloth-trimmed buckets in c/f shells. Ordinary cloth will suffice for the rear. The M3 DCT outsold the manual because (a) the manual wasn't that good and (b) the people who buy a 1700kg V8 saloon nowadays are lazy. Strip the turbos off the engine, you might be able to make the engine itself lighter with thinner walls. Get rid of iDrive, get rid of the e-Brake, get rid of the DCT. Touring - the M5 Touring seemed to sell well enough, I certainly saw far more of them than the saloon - and, as I said, the Audi and Merc wagons, with torquey engines which perhaps suit the estate better than a stroked-out F1 motor with a SMG, mostly outsell the saloons (in Audi's case so much so that they don't even bother making saloon versions any more). Smaller wheels, smaller brakes, less unsprung weight, narrower tyres, less grip - all of these would make the M5 a better car. It has too much power, too much weight and too much grip. The E39 M5 was, truth be told, too heavy, but it was really the E90 M3 that was its successor (and that was much too heavy for an M3, though at least it was lighter than the E39) - and the F10 is an unforgivable lard-arse.
That would sell roughly about one car, to you. Nobody else would touch the thing.You couldn't be further removed from reality if you tried.
Andy M said:
-Z- said:
Guys I've found RoverP6B's daily driver:
Rover this weighs 1400kg, do you honestly think you could make it a daily driver for use with wife/kids for only an extra 100-200kg? You have got to be kidding.
It's 18 inches too long!!Rover this weighs 1400kg, do you honestly think you could make it a daily driver for use with wife/kids for only an extra 100-200kg? You have got to be kidding.
He also mentioned an E28 M5 as something which he looks for. which is heavier than he suggests, and longer and simply wouldn't sell today if it went on sale, even if it were legal. He doesn't ask for much! Sounds like he wants an M3csl. Which is great, but that was hardly a sales success was it!!!
E65Ross said:
RoverP6B said:
The car needs to be about 18 inches shorter in length and a couple of inches narrower than it is, for starters. Swap the electric heated leather front seats for unheated manual cloth-trimmed buckets in c/f shells. Ordinary cloth will suffice for the rear. The M3 DCT outsold the manual because (a) the manual wasn't that good and (b) the people who buy a 1700kg V8 saloon nowadays are lazy. Strip the turbos off the engine, you might be able to make the engine itself lighter with thinner walls. Get rid of iDrive, get rid of the e-Brake, get rid of the DCT. Touring - the M5 Touring seemed to sell well enough, I certainly saw far more of them than the saloon - and, as I said, the Audi and Merc wagons, with torquey engines which perhaps suit the estate better than a stroked-out F1 motor with a SMG, mostly outsell the saloons (in Audi's case so much so that they don't even bother making saloon versions any more). Smaller wheels, smaller brakes, less unsprung weight, narrower tyres, less grip - all of these would make the M5 a better car. It has too much power, too much weight and too much grip. The E39 M5 was, truth be told, too heavy, but it was really the E90 M3 that was its successor (and that was much too heavy for an M3, though at least it was lighter than the E39) - and the F10 is an unforgivable lard-arse.
I'm giving up. There's no reasoning with you. You clearly think the M5 is a road racer not a Super saloon. 18 inches shorter? Yeah, that'll make it a great family saloon where it's a complete squeeze!
You don't understand what the M5 is about in the slightest.
This guy is just trolling now. You think people are gonna spend £60k+ on a car thats got no leathers and has manually adjustable seat?! Are you stupid!
How the f
k do you know that people who bought the M3 were 'lazy' 
Lmao you make me laugh, f
king hell, the way your going on, its like BMW should be BEGGING for your 'expertise'.The best thing about an M5 is that its the best of both worlds. It can be a nice, refined, comfortable cruiser, but, when you want it to be, it can be a savagely brutal monster of a car that eats up the road.
And one more thing, 'the M5 Touring seemed to sell well enough', this just proves that you know absolute f
k all! eta: The E61 M5 was a flop for BMW, didn't sell as well as they expected it to be, just like why they don't make another Z4M, because the last one was a sales struggle.
Edited by Amirhussain on Wednesday 5th February 21:44
Edited by Amirhussain on Wednesday 5th February 21:45
Amirhussain said:
E65Ross said:
RoverP6B said:
The car needs to be about 18 inches shorter in length and a couple of inches narrower than it is, for starters. Swap the electric heated leather front seats for unheated manual cloth-trimmed buckets in c/f shells. Ordinary cloth will suffice for the rear. The M3 DCT outsold the manual because (a) the manual wasn't that good and (b) the people who buy a 1700kg V8 saloon nowadays are lazy. Strip the turbos off the engine, you might be able to make the engine itself lighter with thinner walls. Get rid of iDrive, get rid of the e-Brake, get rid of the DCT. Touring - the M5 Touring seemed to sell well enough, I certainly saw far more of them than the saloon - and, as I said, the Audi and Merc wagons, with torquey engines which perhaps suit the estate better than a stroked-out F1 motor with a SMG, mostly outsell the saloons (in Audi's case so much so that they don't even bother making saloon versions any more). Smaller wheels, smaller brakes, less unsprung weight, narrower tyres, less grip - all of these would make the M5 a better car. It has too much power, too much weight and too much grip. The E39 M5 was, truth be told, too heavy, but it was really the E90 M3 that was its successor (and that was much too heavy for an M3, though at least it was lighter than the E39) - and the F10 is an unforgivable lard-arse.
I'm giving up. There's no reasoning with you. You clearly think the M5 is a road racer not a Super saloon. 18 inches shorter? Yeah, that'll make it a great family saloon where it's a complete squeeze!
You don't understand what the M5 is about in the slightest.
This guy is just trolling now. You think people are gonna spend £60k+ on a car thats got no leathers and has manually adjustable seat?! Are you stupid!
How the f
k do you know that people who bought the M3 were 'lazy' Lmao you make me laugh, f
king hell, the way your going on, its like BMW should be BEGGING for your 'expertise'.The best thing about an M5 is that its the best of both worlds. It can be a nice, refined, comfortable cruiser, but, when you want it to be, it can be a savagely brutal monster of a car that eats up the road.
And one more thing, 'the M5 Touring seemed to sell well enough', this just proves that you know absolute f
k all! eta: The E61 M5 was a flop for BMW, didn't sell as well as they expected it to be, just like why they don't make another Z4M, because the last one was a sales struggle.
Edited by Amirhussain on Wednesday 5th February 21:44
Edited by Amirhussain on Wednesday 5th February 21:45
goldblum said:
Such a friendly place nowadays.
My thoughts entirely. I think he has a valid point as I do believe there is a place for a light, sharp saloon car and if anyone should make it, arguably it should be BMW.However it is not an M5 and so posting here is somewhat futile, particularly given most M5 fanciers would not want/appreciate such a car.
-Z- said:
Guys I've found RoverP6B's daily driver:
Rover this weighs 1400kg, do you honestly think you could make it a daily driver for use with wife/kids for only an extra 100-200kg? You have got to be kidding.
V8 engine, presumably the new twin-turbo, roll-cage, plus it's still bloody huge... no wonder it weighs that much.Rover this weighs 1400kg, do you honestly think you could make it a daily driver for use with wife/kids for only an extra 100-200kg? You have got to be kidding.
I used to own a family saloon which had a 3.5 litre V8 engine. It was a very safe car not only in its time but for decades afterwards - a technological groundbreaker. It was under 14ft long and weighed about 1200kg. It had four very comfortable bucket seats (though the bronze vinyl wouldn't have been my choice). It had 184bhp and a four-speed manual 'box and went respectably quickly. An LS3/T56 swap wouldn't add much if any weight but it would make it fast enough to give any supersaloon of today a scare.
And what has it come to, that people would overlook all the merits of a great car because the seats adjusted manually? All those motors are extra weight, extra complexity and more superfluous nonsense to go wrong. If you won't adjust your seat yourself, you really are lazy.
It used to be that BMW M cars were bought by serious car enthusiasts. The one guy I know who has an E92 M3 bought it with his bonus payment having lost the big bank he worked for £2 million a day for weeks on end. He didn't know the first thing about the car, or the 996 cabrio it replaced. He just wanted something to show off in, and drove like a complete arse.
When did electric seat adjustment arrive in M cars, anyway? Pretty sure it wasn't in the E28 or E30.
Edited by RoverP6B on Thursday 6th February 17:16
RoverP6B said:
V8 engine, presumably the new twin-turbo, roll-cage, plus it's still bloody huge... no wonder it weighs that much.
I used to own a family saloon which had a 3.5 litre V8 engine. It was a very safe car not only in its time but for decades afterwards - a technological groundbreaker. It was under 14ft long and weighed about 1200kg. It had four very comfortable bucket seats (though the bronze vinyl wouldn't have been my choice). It had 184bhp and a four-speed manual 'box and went respectably quickly. An LS3/T56 swap wouldn't add much if any weight but it would make it fast enough to give any supersaloon of today a scare.
And what has it come to, that people would overlook all the merits of a great car because the seats adjusted manually? All those motors are extra weight, extra complexity and more superfluous nonsense to go wrong. If you won't adjust your seat yourself, you really are lazy.
It used to be that BMW M cars were bought by serious car enthusiasts. The one guy I know who has an E92 M3 bought it with his bonus payment having lost the big bank he worked for £2 million a day for weeks on end. He didn't know the first thing about the car, or the 996 cabrio it replaced. He just wanted something to show off in, and drove like a complete arse.
When did electric seat adjustment arrive in M cars, anyway? Pretty sure it wasn't in the E28 or E30.
Pretty sure it was in the E28 I've been in. I used to own a family saloon which had a 3.5 litre V8 engine. It was a very safe car not only in its time but for decades afterwards - a technological groundbreaker. It was under 14ft long and weighed about 1200kg. It had four very comfortable bucket seats (though the bronze vinyl wouldn't have been my choice). It had 184bhp and a four-speed manual 'box and went respectably quickly. An LS3/T56 swap wouldn't add much if any weight but it would make it fast enough to give any supersaloon of today a scare.
And what has it come to, that people would overlook all the merits of a great car because the seats adjusted manually? All those motors are extra weight, extra complexity and more superfluous nonsense to go wrong. If you won't adjust your seat yourself, you really are lazy.
It used to be that BMW M cars were bought by serious car enthusiasts. The one guy I know who has an E92 M3 bought it with his bonus payment having lost the big bank he worked for £2 million a day for weeks on end. He didn't know the first thing about the car, or the 996 cabrio it replaced. He just wanted something to show off in, and drove like a complete arse.
When did electric seat adjustment arrive in M cars, anyway? Pretty sure it wasn't in the E28 or E30.
Edited by RoverP6B on Thursday 6th February 17:16
Genuine question - Do you think your car which weighed 1200kgs would be a viable business solution in today's market.
What you describe is pretty similar to the M3csl which was a sales disaster. You really are trolling now so... Bye bye
E65Ross said:
RoverP6B said:
V8 engine, presumably the new twin-turbo, roll-cage, plus it's still bloody huge... no wonder it weighs that much.
I used to own a family saloon which had a 3.5 litre V8 engine. It was a very safe car not only in its time but for decades afterwards - a technological groundbreaker. It was under 14ft long and weighed about 1200kg. It had four very comfortable bucket seats (though the bronze vinyl wouldn't have been my choice). It had 184bhp and a four-speed manual 'box and went respectably quickly. An LS3/T56 swap wouldn't add much if any weight but it would make it fast enough to give any supersaloon of today a scare.
And what has it come to, that people would overlook all the merits of a great car because the seats adjusted manually? All those motors are extra weight, extra complexity and more superfluous nonsense to go wrong. If you won't adjust your seat yourself, you really are lazy.
It used to be that BMW M cars were bought by serious car enthusiasts. The one guy I know who has an E92 M3 bought it with his bonus payment having lost the big bank he worked for £2 million a day for weeks on end. He didn't know the first thing about the car, or the 996 cabrio it replaced. He just wanted something to show off in, and drove like a complete arse.
When did electric seat adjustment arrive in M cars, anyway? Pretty sure it wasn't in the E28 or E30.
Pretty sure it was in the E28 I've been in. I used to own a family saloon which had a 3.5 litre V8 engine. It was a very safe car not only in its time but for decades afterwards - a technological groundbreaker. It was under 14ft long and weighed about 1200kg. It had four very comfortable bucket seats (though the bronze vinyl wouldn't have been my choice). It had 184bhp and a four-speed manual 'box and went respectably quickly. An LS3/T56 swap wouldn't add much if any weight but it would make it fast enough to give any supersaloon of today a scare.
And what has it come to, that people would overlook all the merits of a great car because the seats adjusted manually? All those motors are extra weight, extra complexity and more superfluous nonsense to go wrong. If you won't adjust your seat yourself, you really are lazy.
It used to be that BMW M cars were bought by serious car enthusiasts. The one guy I know who has an E92 M3 bought it with his bonus payment having lost the big bank he worked for £2 million a day for weeks on end. He didn't know the first thing about the car, or the 996 cabrio it replaced. He just wanted something to show off in, and drove like a complete arse.
When did electric seat adjustment arrive in M cars, anyway? Pretty sure it wasn't in the E28 or E30.
Edited by RoverP6B on Thursday 6th February 17:16
Genuine question - Do you think your car which weighed 1200kgs would be a viable business solution in today's market.
What you describe is pretty similar to the M3csl which was a sales disaster. You really are trolling now so... Bye bye
t. Amirhussain said:
+1, the guy just chats pure st.
Completely bang out of order. You write like you are 10 years old and I assume you don't have a car, let alone even experienced any form of M5. t. No need for your completely out of order comments. I suggest if you can't post anything with a modicum of common sense, you don't post at all.
I think Rover does have a point but don't think this is the thread for your thoughts unfortunately.
'I suggest if you can't post anything with a modicum of common sense, you don't post at all.' You should be saying that to your bumchum Rover
'No need for your completely out of order comments.'
And he doesn't have a point, the guys a lost plot, goes on like his some kind of driving god 'demanding' hardcore stripped out racers
You should be saying that to your bumchum Rover'No need for your completely out of order comments.'
And he doesn't have a point, the guys a lost plot, goes on like his some kind of driving god 'demanding' hardcore stripped out racers
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