RE: PH Blog: back from the magistrates
Discussion
...no - that could NEVER happen! 
ctallchris said:
There appears to be a slight flaw in the process. Surely after you receive the summons there should be instructions on how to call the DVLA and get them to conference call your insurance company to confirm that your car is insured.
10 minutes with Joe from the dvla's insurance department could resolve the problem and free up the time from our courts to process all the extra bad un's that our police will lock up in the time they would usually spend looking for uninsured drivers.
Seems a shame to waste your time and that of the 10 or so people that adorn the magistrates court when it could probably be resolved by a phone call.
Agree. If I had to truck all the way over to Swansea because of someone else's cock up I'd be f10 minutes with Joe from the dvla's insurance department could resolve the problem and free up the time from our courts to process all the extra bad un's that our police will lock up in the time they would usually spend looking for uninsured drivers.
Seems a shame to waste your time and that of the 10 or so people that adorn the magistrates court when it could probably be resolved by a phone call.
king lividThing is, I don't think there's anything to say you must have a vehicle insured if it is taxed, is there? Certainly if you drive it in public, you have to insure it, but if it is off the road or driven only on private land then you're not breaking the law, are you? OK, if it's off the road then you should SORN it, and if you only drive on private land then why would you tax it, but it seems a bit draconian to assume that all taxed but uninsured drivers are breaking the law. I suspect a good lawyer would should any prosecution based on this to pieces unless there is proof that indeed the driver did drive it illegally rather than "we think you might have".
forzaminardi said:
Thing is, I don't think there's anything to say you must have a vehicle insured if it is taxed, is there? Certainly if you drive it in public, you have to insure it, but if it is off the road or driven only on private land then you're not breaking the law, are you? OK, if it's off the road then you should SORN it, and if you only drive on private land then why would you tax it, but it seems a bit draconian to assume that all taxed but uninsured drivers are breaking the law. I suspect a good lawyer would should any prosecution based on this to pieces unless there is proof that indeed the driver did drive it illegally rather than "we think you might have".
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicl..."If you're not insured and haven't made a SORN, you could face a penalty."
suffolk009 said:
I know a chap who reckons the government should provide third party insurance to all drivers. Automatically. It would be funded from taxation in the price of petrol. Just basic no frills third party. No fire, theft or money for you.
Nothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
They have this system is oz, or maybe new Zealand. Can't remember whichNothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
forzaminardi said:
Thing is, I don't think there's anything to say you must have a vehicle insured if it is taxed, is there? Certainly if you drive it in public, you have to insure it, but if it is off the road or driven only on private land then you're not breaking the law, are you? OK, if it's off the road then you should SORN it, and if you only drive on private land then why would you tax it, but it seems a bit draconian to assume that all taxed but uninsured drivers are breaking the law. I suspect a good lawyer would should any prosecution based on this to pieces unless there is proof that indeed the driver did drive it illegally rather than "we think you might have".
Have you been away and missed the new law on continuous insurance?Aviz said:
suffolk009 said:
I know a chap who reckons the government should provide third party insurance to all drivers. Automatically. It would be funded from taxation in the price of petrol. Just basic no frills third party. No fire, theft or money for you.
Nothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
They have this system is oz, or maybe new Zealand. Can't remember whichNothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
Bureaucracy is intrinsically imperfect. We all know that. How you choose to deal with the ups and downs of living within such a system probably determines your day-to-day happiness and blood pressure.
Me? I’m instinctively aggressive and angry. Ask anyone that knows me.
That means I can find irritation in virtually anything: from the coldness of the bog-seat to the vague whiff of radio noise that just reaches the window of the room I often work in when there’s a light north-easterly. Even accusations of being a troll when all you’ve done is directly report something that happened to you that morning can be viewed as potential flash points.
I have to take the long view, otherwise I am probably incompatible with any kind of society.
Am I happy that today cost me half a day? No.
But then again on Monday the local tip accepted two car loads of household rubbish when I was supposed to be limited to just two black sacks. And three blokes smiled and chatted with me as they helped unload it.
I could try and recover the £23 of fuel and a day’s time, but the process would make me angry and ultimately yield nothing. I went today knowing that I was innocent, but still expecting to have some unfair court costs slapped on me – instead a polite man apologised for the situation, explained what had happened in completely unpatronising terms and when I left the building the sun was shining.
I’ve had better days, and I’ve had worse.
Is this newfangled Insurance Database perfect? Not by a long chalk, and as someone who’s always in pre-prod test cars and borrowed metal, I suspect I’ll fall foul of it again and be less sympathetic next time.
Anyone who’s had to deal with an accident with an uninsured driver will confirm that removing those cars/people from the road is a worthy cause. Automation is the best way to do that. Coppers should replace speed cameras, but they can't be expected to sort this problem.
FYI - I am testing a wooden toilet seat, initial results are favourable.
Me? I’m instinctively aggressive and angry. Ask anyone that knows me.
That means I can find irritation in virtually anything: from the coldness of the bog-seat to the vague whiff of radio noise that just reaches the window of the room I often work in when there’s a light north-easterly. Even accusations of being a troll when all you’ve done is directly report something that happened to you that morning can be viewed as potential flash points.
I have to take the long view, otherwise I am probably incompatible with any kind of society.
Am I happy that today cost me half a day? No.
But then again on Monday the local tip accepted two car loads of household rubbish when I was supposed to be limited to just two black sacks. And three blokes smiled and chatted with me as they helped unload it.
I could try and recover the £23 of fuel and a day’s time, but the process would make me angry and ultimately yield nothing. I went today knowing that I was innocent, but still expecting to have some unfair court costs slapped on me – instead a polite man apologised for the situation, explained what had happened in completely unpatronising terms and when I left the building the sun was shining.
I’ve had better days, and I’ve had worse.
Is this newfangled Insurance Database perfect? Not by a long chalk, and as someone who’s always in pre-prod test cars and borrowed metal, I suspect I’ll fall foul of it again and be less sympathetic next time.
Anyone who’s had to deal with an accident with an uninsured driver will confirm that removing those cars/people from the road is a worthy cause. Automation is the best way to do that. Coppers should replace speed cameras, but they can't be expected to sort this problem.
FYI - I am testing a wooden toilet seat, initial results are favourable.
I think this is another case of “Big Brother”, in our nanny state, getting it wrong and harassing innocent people. I had a similar problem with a bogus speeding ticket on my Audi TT; apparently it was speeding in Birmingham city centre at the same time as it was parked up in Leicester??
To cut a long story short, I had to spend several days gathering evidence, including written statements from work and photographic evidence of my parking space to prove I was innocent! What happened to being innocent until PROVEN guilty?
Oh, this could have been cleared up sooner, if the Police officer on the phone could have confirmed the photographic evidence of the crime matched the vehicle the registration was assigned to, but because I was contesting the ticket, he couldn’t give me ANY details and told me to prove my innocence.
The ticket was withdrawn, but no reasons were given as to why I’d received it in the first place!
I think everything in this country is getting far too complicated and automated, and we’re becoming nothing more than just “Processed cattle”. It’s like the government has zero tolerance on us getting the paperwork wrong, but its ok for them to cock things up!
To cut a long story short, I had to spend several days gathering evidence, including written statements from work and photographic evidence of my parking space to prove I was innocent! What happened to being innocent until PROVEN guilty?
Oh, this could have been cleared up sooner, if the Police officer on the phone could have confirmed the photographic evidence of the crime matched the vehicle the registration was assigned to, but because I was contesting the ticket, he couldn’t give me ANY details and told me to prove my innocence.
The ticket was withdrawn, but no reasons were given as to why I’d received it in the first place!
I think everything in this country is getting far too complicated and automated, and we’re becoming nothing more than just “Processed cattle”. It’s like the government has zero tolerance on us getting the paperwork wrong, but its ok for them to cock things up!
Chris Harris said:
Even accusations of being a troll when all you’ve done is directly report something that happened to you that morning can be viewed as potential flash points.
I have to take the long view, otherwise I am probably incompatible with any kind of society.
Am I happy that today cost me half a day? No.
Anyone who’s had to deal with an accident with an uninsured driver will confirm that removing those cars/people from the road is a worthy cause. Automation is the best way to do that. Coppers should replace speed cameras, but they can't be expected to sort this problem.
I have to take the long view, otherwise I am probably incompatible with any kind of society.
Am I happy that today cost me half a day? No.
Anyone who’s had to deal with an accident with an uninsured driver will confirm that removing those cars/people from the road is a worthy cause. Automation is the best way to do that. Coppers should replace speed cameras, but they can't be expected to sort this problem.
Can you honestly say you don't pick controversial topics to write about???
Agree wholeheartedly though with getting uninsured drivers off the road, but the current process is badly flawed in 2 ways:-
- the DVLA database is woefully flawed and always has been, yet the DVLA refuse to acknowledge this and as a result many people get treated rather badly by them.
- the typical penalty handed out by the courts for uninsured driving is a few hundred pounds...far less than the cost of insurance would have been. Until this is changed (i.e. for once making the penalty exceed the cost of compliance), there is little incentive for the habitual uninsured driver to change their ways.
Change these and I'll defend the automation aspect. Until then, it tends to be wielded as a blunt instrument against many innocent people...
Aviz said:
Aviz said:
suffolk009 said:
I know a chap who reckons the government should provide third party insurance to all drivers. Automatically. It would be funded from taxation in the price of petrol. Just basic no frills third party. No fire, theft or money for you.
Nothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
They have this system is oz, or maybe new Zealand. Can't remember whichNothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
As for the original article - DVLA or whoever should be forced to pay out five thousand pounds each time they get it wrong - the amount to double each week if they are late paying. What a s
t system.havoc said:
Can you honestly say you don't pick controversial topics to write about???
Agree wholeheartedly though with getting uninsured drivers off the road, but the current process is badly flawed in 2 ways:-
- the DVLA database is woefully flawed and always has been, yet the DVLA refuse to acknowledge this and as a result many people get treated rather badly by them.
- the typical penalty handed out by the courts for uninsured driving is a few hundred pounds...far less than the cost of insurance would have been. Until this is changed (i.e. for once making the penalty exceed the cost of compliance), there is little incentive for the habitual uninsured driver to change their ways.
Change these and I'll defend the automation aspect. Until then, it tends to be wielded as a blunt instrument against many innocent people...
That gearchange.....
Couple of years ago my wife was stopped by the police because the car wasn't showing on MID, the first question the policeman asked was 'have you just brought the car?'.
Yes, we had brought the car a couple of days earlier, not locally so maybe the policeman was using some common sense?
If I remember correctly it took about a week for the car to show up as insured on MID.
What was slightly strange was that another of my cars was showing as insured - the car hadn't been insured for about 5 years and was in a million bits!
Yes, we had brought the car a couple of days earlier, not locally so maybe the policeman was using some common sense?
If I remember correctly it took about a week for the car to show up as insured on MID.
What was slightly strange was that another of my cars was showing as insured - the car hadn't been insured for about 5 years and was in a million bits!
I had a similar situation recently.
The Mighty Mi16 was seized and impounded, leaving me stood on the side of the road, because it wasn't on the database and the officer that pulled me wouldn't accept my explanation of my insurance arrangements.
£150 to spring the Mi, half an hour in a magistrates court 2 months later to present the evidence and guess what - not guilty.
I might have been in a 20yr old car, but I'm not an illiterate tt. That officer had an opportunity to use his discretion based on what I told/showed him at the time but instead he was a jobsworth, computer says no etc etc.
I was however, very impressed with the ANPR cameras in the BMW jammer that pulled me.
Pissed me off at the time, but uninsured scum piss me off even more.
The Mighty Mi16 was seized and impounded, leaving me stood on the side of the road, because it wasn't on the database and the officer that pulled me wouldn't accept my explanation of my insurance arrangements.
£150 to spring the Mi, half an hour in a magistrates court 2 months later to present the evidence and guess what - not guilty.
I might have been in a 20yr old car, but I'm not an illiterate t
t. That officer had an opportunity to use his discretion based on what I told/showed him at the time but instead he was a jobsworth, computer says no etc etc.I was however, very impressed with the ANPR cameras in the BMW jammer that pulled me.
Pissed me off at the time, but uninsured scum piss me off even more.
Edited by ringweekends on Wednesday 29th February 19:22
A few weeks after collecting a new company car, I was stopped on the M6 by a marked car for no insurance.
As I sat in the back feeling like a naughty schoolboy, one of the BiB started making phonecalls and luckily I knew who the company insurers were and they verified that the policy was in place. However the person who looked after their MID submissions was on long term sick, therefore it wasn't being updated as often as it should.
What annoyed me more though is that whilst one BiB was calm and reasoned whilst getting on with making phone calls to insurers, the driver was giving me a lecture on taking responsibility and consequences of not being insured, and telling me how much it would cost to get "my" car back, as it would be a shame to make an example of a 3 week old Volvo, and then made a remark about it being raining whilst I'm waiting for a lift home at the Sandbach services!!
When the second BiB confirmed the insurance details, I admit that I had a proper st-eating grin on my face as the driver looked disappointed at not bagging a result.
As I sat in the back feeling like a naughty schoolboy, one of the BiB started making phonecalls and luckily I knew who the company insurers were and they verified that the policy was in place. However the person who looked after their MID submissions was on long term sick, therefore it wasn't being updated as often as it should.
What annoyed me more though is that whilst one BiB was calm and reasoned whilst getting on with making phone calls to insurers, the driver was giving me a lecture on taking responsibility and consequences of not being insured, and telling me how much it would cost to get "my" car back, as it would be a shame to make an example of a 3 week old Volvo, and then made a remark about it being raining whilst I'm waiting for a lift home at the Sandbach services!!
When the second BiB confirmed the insurance details, I admit that I had a proper s
t-eating grin on my face as the driver looked disappointed at not bagging a result. suffolk009 said:
I know a chap who reckons the government should provide third party insurance to all drivers. Automatically. It would be funded from taxation in the price of petrol. Just basic no frills third party. No fire, theft or money for you.
Nothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
Doesn't sound like such a bad idea with the alleged amount of uninsured vehicles on the roadNothing to stop you taking out further F&T or comp insurance. That'd be your choice.
How useful would that be? Never happen though.
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