RE: Geneva 2012: Range Rover Evoque Convertible
Discussion
tty thing when is the all new proper Range Rover being unveiled?.Trommel said:
CY88 said:
Why is the brand devalued? Global sales success and countless prizes across the board for most if not all of Land Rovers products would suggest otherwise?
Ever heard of Pierre Cardin?Or are you suggesting that Pierre Cardin garments are somehow comparable to the engineering success that underpins Land Rover?
Trommel said:
Of course, but the flip side is that the Range Rover "brand" is devalued (further) so it is potentially short-sighted if you're concerned about maintaining the cachet which has allowed you to do it to begin with.
When you start chopping out products at half their existing price with the same label on it is inevitable.
This sort of rhetoric is becoming more common; and more baseless.When you start chopping out products at half their existing price with the same label on it is inevitable.
Increasing the product line-up, the markets is appeals to and the regions it is suitable for is the complete opposite of devaluing a brand - it's making it more valuable by increasing sales, brand awareness and the customer base. Fact: If Tata sold Land Rover now they would make more money than they paid for it, therefore value has been added.
What you mean is your nostalgic perception of the brand's values (not value) has been altered.
The frustrating thing is that LR have achieved their current success by adding to their core, nostalgic product range not by overwriting it like other brands.
Anyone who doesn't want to see British manufacturers (doesn't matter who they're owned by so long as they employ thousands here)do well baffles me. If all they produced was vehicles that the die-hards approved of (but never bought) they would be following many car manufacturers that attempted to do the same.
Trommel said:
unrepentant said:
Absolute bilge. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.
Strange that someone making a living from flogging them would think that.You cannot maintain the value of a prestige brand if you sell larger numbers of cheaper products with the same label - it's a trade-off.
Why do you think diffusion brands exist?
LR is enjoying the best sales period in it's history and growth is coming from all model areas. Evoque has been a huge global success and is worthy of the RR badge. The compact SUV market is one of the biggest growth areas and LR have taken a (relatively for a niche brand) big chunk of that business with a great product. Any effect that the Evoque has had on sales of other products has been positive.
CY88 said:
Sort of.... but I still disagree that Pierre Cardin was ever that good, or in great demand nowadays.
Land Rover, on the other hand are still...just... producing the Defender in their line-up. Proper icon.
He was a haute-couturier who rapidly lost his standing (but not his income) when his name was stuck across every piece of branded tat imaginable. An extreme example, perhaps, but hard to argue with. Land Rover, on the other hand are still...just... producing the Defender in their line-up. Proper icon.
As much as I like the Defender, it's way past its sell by date. I'm sure the DC100 will be a suitable replacement ...
unrepentant said:
Trommel said:
unrepentant said:
Absolute bilge. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.
Strange that someone making a living from flogging them would think that.You cannot maintain the value of a prestige brand if you sell larger numbers of cheaper products with the same label - it's a trade-off.
Why do you think diffusion brands exist?
LR is enjoying the best sales period in it's history and growth is coming from all model areas. Evoque has been a huge global success and is worthy of the RR badge. The compact SUV market is one of the biggest growth areas and LR have taken a (relatively for a niche brand) big chunk of that business with a great product. Any effect that the Evoque has had on sales of other products has been positive.
Trommel said:
Streetrod said:
To all those that don’t like it I'm afraid that is why you are not running successful car companies. You may not personally like it but you would have to be a fool not to realise that there would be a huge market for this car
Of course, but the flip side is that the Range Rover "brand" is devalued (further) so it is potentially short-sighted if you're concerned about maintaining the cachet which has allowed you to do it to begin with.When you start chopping out products at half their existing price with the same label on it is inevitable.
) A well speced Evoque will cost you in excess of £50K at the moment, the convertible is going to slap a whole heap of change on top of that. These are luxury cars. Add the fact that the new Range Rover will be moving up the price band with cars well in excess of £100k, Land Rover has to provide a product that will allow people to buy into the brand at the bottom end. That way they can gain product loyalty with people hopefully stepping up to the more expensive products when they can afford them.LR are absolutely doing the right thing. Let’s not forget that the Evoque has been meet with universal praise from the motoring press which is translating into great sales, without which the premium models could not be developed.
unrepentant said:
Bash Brannigan said:
It would also fit the standard private equity style 5 year acquisition to disposal time as TATA took over JLR in 2008.
With all due respect you don't know much about TATA do you? In over 140 years they have aquired over 100 companies. They have never sold one.Vantagefan said:
This sort of rhetoric is becoming more common; and more baseless.
Increasing the product line-up, the markets is appeals to and the regions it is suitable for is the complete opposite of devaluing a brand - it's making it more valuable by increasing sales, brand awareness and the customer base. Fact: If Tata sold Land Rover now they would make more money than they paid for it, therefore value has been added.
What you mean is your nostalgic perception of the brand's values (not value) has been altered
Increasing the product line-up, the markets is appeals to and the regions it is suitable for is the complete opposite of devaluing a brand - it's making it more valuable by increasing sales, brand awareness and the customer base. Fact: If Tata sold Land Rover now they would make more money than they paid for it, therefore value has been added.
What you mean is your nostalgic perception of the brand's values (not value) has been altered
unrepentant said:
You're right. The 3 series killed BMW. Mercedes never recovered from the introduction of the C Class...
Range Rover has been split-off as a brand in its own right - a prestige brand, sitting above Land Rover, with two additional lines riding on the coat-tails of the product line which built that image. Without careful management it would be very easy for that image - now a prestige, aspirational brand in its right - earned over 40 years, to be harmed by selling a cheaper product with the same name. You don't need a PhD in marketing to work that out.
The Mercedes (and BMW, to an extent) analogy is not exactly similar but still relevant. Why do you think Maybach was resurrected (whether successful or not)?
As someone who has probably spent more time driving Land Rovers and Range Rovers than anything else, I would certainly like to see them succeed.
Trommel said:
Without careful management it would be very easy for that image - now a prestige, aspirational brand in its right - earned over 40 years, to be harmed by selling a cheaper product with the same name. You don't need a PhD in marketing to work that out.
The Evoque is a prestigious aspirational product though. It's also not a "cheaper" product. We've sold them at over $60k and you can get a new Sport for $63k.I'm pretty confident that the management at JLR have a very clear understanding of their brand and the best direction in which to take it.
unrepentant said:
The Evoque is a prestigious aspirational product though. It's also not a "cheaper" product. We've sold them at over $60k and you can get a new Sport for $63k.
I'm pretty confident that the management at JLR have a very clear understanding of their brand and the best direction in which to take it.
I'm sure they know how best to make money from it.I'm pretty confident that the management at JLR have a very clear understanding of their brand and the best direction in which to take it.
How do you think the Range Rover Sport's image has changed the "brand"? Improved it, or worsened it?
Trommel said:
I'm sure they know how best to make money from it.
How do you think the Range Rover Sport's image has changed the "brand"? Improved it, or worsened it?
That depends on your viewpoint. Some may point the figure at the amount of chavs buying in to the brand, thus devaluing it but your average Russian oligarch sees it as a reflection of his success. Certainly, when I think of Burberry I immediately think 'chav'! That doesn't seem to have hurt their brand image (isolated to the UK anyway) and as I'm not part of their core demographic my opinion is somewhat irrelevant, which is the same point with Land Rover products.How do you think the Range Rover Sport's image has changed the "brand"? Improved it, or worsened it?
Trommel said:
unrepentant said:
The Evoque is a prestigious aspirational product though. It's also not a "cheaper" product. We've sold them at over $60k and you can get a new Sport for $63k.
I'm pretty confident that the management at JLR have a very clear understanding of their brand and the best direction in which to take it.
I'm sure they know how best to make money from it.I'm pretty confident that the management at JLR have a very clear understanding of their brand and the best direction in which to take it.
How do you think the Range Rover Sport's image has changed the "brand"? Improved it, or worsened it?
I would say that LR has a much better image today than it had 10 or 15 years ago. I had a new RR in '95 in the UK. Worst car I ever owned, towed 4 times in 2 years before I sold it as fast as I could. Back then LR's reputation and image were poor. Today the image is transformed and that is down to the product and since 06 the Sport has been a big part of that.
Trommel said:
unrepentant said:
As far as brand image is concerned I can't see that it can have done anything but improve it
I think that would be a singular viewpoint in the UK.I only left the UK in 2010 and was a consumer of new cars there for many years and I would not consider the RRS to have done anything but improve the standing of Land Rover. Compared to 10 years ago LR is selling a lot more luxury vehicles in a lot more markets in higher quantities. So the market would agree with me, the image is just fine. And why wouldn't it be? I don't understand what you are trying to get at. The RRS is a great vehicle, every bit as capable as a FFRR and with a great image. Which is why it has been a great conquest vehicle from MB, BMW etc.. as the Evoque is also proving to be.
unrepentant said:
Compared to 10 years ago LR is selling a lot more luxury vehicles in a lot more markets in higher quantities. So the market would agree with me, the image is just fine. And why wouldn't it be? I don't understand what you are trying to get at. The RRS is a great vehicle, every bit as capable as a FFRR and with a great image
I like the RRS and would happily drive one (in the right colour and the right spec), but can you seriously and honestly say that you aren't aware of an image problem with them? 
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