RE: Geneva 2012: Lotus Exige Roadster
Discussion
Some Gump said:
Captain Muppet said:
Itsallicanafford said:
Look, if porsche have taken 50+ years to put together a sustainable 5 car line-up, why does Louts think it can be done in 5 years. I'm guessing the Evora is not a great seller, isn't this sounding massive alarm bells for their viability in this segment. Look at McClaren, a name with triple A status in motorsport, and a profitable business...why are they not developing 5 cars?
Point 1 - Porsche didn't spend 50 years putting together a sustainable car line up. They spent 50 years evolving one car, then brought out an SUV and a cheap two seater. Then a few years later bought VW with the profits.Point 2 - insightful industry analysis is more believable if you spell the names of the company correctly.
356
914 924 944 968 boxster / cayman
928
959 GT1 Carrera GT
911
The only car in the above list to have been the only car on sale at the time was the 356.
It is generally accepted tat if they only had the 911, Porsche would not have survived at all.
Oh, and VAG own Porsche, not the other way round. Porsche tried to pull it off, might have even managed, but failed. As far as I recall, they're not fully in the clear or the short selling stunt, either.
What I should have said was in 2009 Lotus were selling the Elise, Exige, Europa, 211 and Evora. A five car line up. Sure the new five car line up is more diverse and more expensive, but that's how you make more money, or try to, and it's certainly worked for Porsche.
Lotus has had multiple car line ups since the 1960s (or earlier, I dunno) the 7/Elan/Elan+2/Europa were all on sale at same time, the FWD Elan/Excel/Esprit at the same time (and not had just one car on sale since 1953). They have launched cars before that were a departure from their current cars, and that have offended traditionalists/Luddites (the Europa had the engine in the wrong place, the Eclat was hideous, the Esprit was the Esprit, the M100 was FWD, the Elise didn't have a back-bone chassis, the 340R didn't have doors, the Evora wasn't an Elise derivative, etc). Some were huge successes, some weren't. The only thing it's done differently is annouce all of them at once, which has generated huge publicity and confused a small number of people.
As for McLaren: they have done two road cars ever (God, alright, maybe three if you include the Mercedes) - it's a totally different situation for them.
Captain Muppet said:
Your point 3 is a rebutal of my point 1. My point 1 was as accurate as his stupid point about Lotus suddenly having a 5 car line up, ie lazy flabby ignorance we (me and Itsallicanafford) should both be ashamed of.
What I should have said was in 2009 Lotus were selling the Elise, Exige, Europa, 211 and Evora. A five car line up. Sure the new five car line up is more diverse and more expensive, but that's how you make more money, or try to, and it's certainly worked for Porsche.
Lotus has had multiple car line ups since the 1960s (or earlier, I dunno) the 7/Elan/Elan+2/Europa were all on sale at same time, the FWD Elan/Excel/Esprit at the same time (and not had just one car on sale since 1953). They have launched cars before that were a departure from their current cars, and that have offended traditionalists/Luddites (the Europa had the engine in the wrong place, the Eclat was hideous, the Esprit was the Esprit, the M100 was FWD, the Elise didn't have a back-bone chassis, the 340R didn't have doors, the Evora wasn't an Elise derivative, etc). Some were huge successes, some weren't. The only thing it's done differently is annouce all of them at once, which has generated huge publicity and confused a small number of people.
As for McLaren: they have done two road cars ever (God, alright, maybe three if you include the Mercedes) - it's a totally different situation for them.
..I think my points are still valid, especailly as they are my own views. The Elise, Exige, Europa, 211 and Evora 5 car line-up put them in niche market sectors, an Elise, esprit, Eterne and whatever the other cars are called are a step-up and you bring into play the likes of porche (that how i spell it), Ferrari, MB, Lambo etc etc...i just don't think the Lotus can cut it at this level from a standing start. My point about McLaren is that they are in the perfect position to go for 5 models, i.e well funded and with huge Kudos, but they are taking a long term view and bringing out models one at a time...Look, it's my opinon, i hope i am wrong, i like the brand, i like employing people in the UK, lets hope the man's brilliant and can pull it off...What I should have said was in 2009 Lotus were selling the Elise, Exige, Europa, 211 and Evora. A five car line up. Sure the new five car line up is more diverse and more expensive, but that's how you make more money, or try to, and it's certainly worked for Porsche.
Lotus has had multiple car line ups since the 1960s (or earlier, I dunno) the 7/Elan/Elan+2/Europa were all on sale at same time, the FWD Elan/Excel/Esprit at the same time (and not had just one car on sale since 1953). They have launched cars before that were a departure from their current cars, and that have offended traditionalists/Luddites (the Europa had the engine in the wrong place, the Eclat was hideous, the Esprit was the Esprit, the M100 was FWD, the Elise didn't have a back-bone chassis, the 340R didn't have doors, the Evora wasn't an Elise derivative, etc). Some were huge successes, some weren't. The only thing it's done differently is annouce all of them at once, which has generated huge publicity and confused a small number of people.
As for McLaren: they have done two road cars ever (God, alright, maybe three if you include the Mercedes) - it's a totally different situation for them.
Ozzie Osmond said:
I WISH said:
I'll stick with my Elise thanks. Much purer handling ....
Oh yes? You've driven the new Exige have you?It is likely that a car weighing 700Kgs is gonna be more nimble than something roughly the same shape and size that weighs 1100Kgs. The new Exige S will be quicker sure .... particularly further up the speed range .... but I stand by my original view.
RTH said:
Have you driven a current Kia?
Yes, and it was the most miserable 2 hours I have spent in a long time, a 7 year guarantee and all the bells and whistles do not make for driving pleasure. It was a treat to hand it back and jump into my 12 year old rattly S1.Not sure where I stand on Lotus' current direction but I think that owners like me are something of a quandry - I've had my S1 for 8 years, love it to bits and so far haven't been tempted to change it which doesn't exactly sustain Lotus sales.
That said, they would both be very high up my shortlist if I had the funds.
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