RE: You Know You Want To: BMW E30 M3

[daveco]

Alfanatic said:

The 325iS 2.7 and 333i are, I gather, completely different animals to the M3 and are much more likely to be like the Alpinas and Hartge 6 cyl conversions. The iS even got its engine from Hartge. Still great cars, but different. And the 333i is older too. That's based on the pre facelift E30 and has a very lively back end, though on the plus side you might find one without power steering (packaging restrictions meant that buyers of early cars could choose aircon or power steering, but not both), and the unassisted rack is supposed to be pretty good, but a 333i is even rarer than an M3. You'll have a hell of a time finding a good one.

Just checked the 325iS out on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJO3C0j8F3U

It appears it does 0-100 mph in about 12.5 seconds (must be modified?)

I didn't know a sport version of the 325 existed!

[flatline84]

It doesnt. No such thing.
325s, nice as they are, are not as good in the corners as the M3...more of a cruiser imo.

[Traveller]

s m said:

You're unlikely to even see one of those though unless you're in South Africa - closest we got over here were cars from Alpina or Hartge to those ...although there was a 325iS EVO up for sale recently in Jersey I saw
Have you owned one of those 2 or driven one?

Edited by s m on Friday 16th March 08:51

I have driven the 325IS EVO not the 333I though. My overwhelming memory of the car, is the engine, absolutely spine chilling sound from inside the cockpit. As with all e30's, it is a fairly small car and seems to shrink even further around the driver, lovely car.

[Traveller]

Alfanatic said:

The 325iS 2.7 and 333i are, I gather, completely different animals to the M3 and are much more likely to be like the Alpinas and Hartge 6 cyl conversions. The iS even got its engine from Hartge.

The engine is from Alpina, 2.7 C2 engine, and a lovely sounding motor it is to.

[s m]

flatline84 said:

It doesnt. No such thing.
325s, nice as they are, are not as good in the corners as the M3...more of a cruiser imo.

No such thing as what?

[flatline84]

325iS.

[s m]

flatline84 said:

325iS.

It's a South African model, like the 333i - we get the 325i Sport over here but as South Africa didn't officially get the E30 M3 they developed the Sport version on somewhat

[Guvernator]

Traveller said:

Alfanatic said:

The 325iS 2.7 and 333i are, I gather, completely different animals to the M3 and are much more likely to be like the Alpinas and Hartge 6 cyl conversions. The iS even got its engine from Hartge.

The engine is from Alpina, 2.7 C2 engine, and a lovely sounding motor it is to.

This I would agree with, I had the pleasure of looking after an Alpina C2.7 many years ago and it was an absolutely fantastic machine. In fact I'd go so far as to say I prefered it to the M3 which I also got several opportunities to drive. Yes the M3 looked nicer with that unique bulging bodywork and it's handling was a little sharper but tbh there really wasn't much in it and I vastly prefered the engine in the Alpina. Again I'm not saying the engine in the M3 is bad but the Alpina pulled harder, felt smoother and made an amazing noise while doing it.

If I had a yearning for a decent E30, I'd probably track down a decent C2.7 instead and save myself 40k, in fact I'd probably go one better and buy a 325i msport for 3-4k and, chuck some money at some mods and take it out on track. I'd get more pleasure from that then worrying about putting miles on a "precious" M3.

[falkster]

Guvernator said:

in fact I'd probably go one better and buy a 325i msport for 3-4k and, chuck some money at some mods and take it out on track.

Please wash your mouth out! M3s were meant for the track so don't mind them being tracked but surely instead of destroying a beautiful sport you could just get any mint E30 and modify it to you chosen track standard?

[s m]

Guvernator said:

Traveller said:

Alfanatic said:

The 325iS 2.7 and 333i are, I gather, completely different animals to the M3 and are much more likely to be like the Alpinas and Hartge 6 cyl conversions. The iS even got its engine from Hartge.

The engine is from Alpina, 2.7 C2 engine, and a lovely sounding motor it is to.

This I would agree with, I had the pleasure of looking after an Alpina C2.7 many years ago and it was an absolutely fantastic machine. In fact I'd go so far as to say I prefered it to the M3 which I also got several opportunities to drive. Yes the M3 looked nicer with that unique bulging bodywork and it's handling was a little sharper but tbh there really wasn't much in it and I vastly prefered the engine in the Alpina. Again I'm not saying the engine in the M3 is bad but the Alpina pulled harder, felt smoother and made an amazing noise while doing it.

If I had a yearning for a decent E30, I'd probably track down a decent C2.7 instead and save myself 40k, in fact I'd probably go one better and buy a 325i msport for 3-4k and, chuck some money at some mods and take it out on track. I'd get more pleasure from that then worrying about putting miles on a "precious" M3.

Interesting looking at the prices in this article about 5 years ago - the M3 has really got a shift on going up in value



There was a very similar article about 10 years before interesting to see the values/driving impressions back then!

[Guvernator]

falkster said:

Guvernator said:

in fact I'd probably go one better and buy a 325i msport for 3-4k and, chuck some money at some mods and take it out on track.

Please wash your mouth out! M3s were meant for the track so don't mind them being tracked but surely instead of destroying a beautiful sport you could just get any mint E30 and modify it to you chosen track standard?

My sentiments are not opposite to yours? While a refreshed E30 M3 is more than capable on track, they are now getting too precious\valuable for that kind of abuse. I'd say with the sharp increase in value, 90% of them are now being relegated to garage queen status hence why the common 325i is a better bet. With a few mods you can get it to be as good or better than an M3 without worrying about destroying\stacking a rare modern classic.

I just don't get owning a car that you are too scared to drive for fear of breaking or devaluing it. Not my idea of a fun ownership proposition at all.

[J4CKO]

Why not buy a standard E30 and a crashed 740 and put the two together, would be an interesting comparison, the ultimate factory edition versus a
homebrew hybrid.

Wonder which would be more fun ?

[Alfanatic]

s m said:

flatline84 said:

325iS.

It's a South African model, like the 333i - we get the 325i Sport over here but as South Africa didn't officially get the E30 M3 they developed the Sport version on somewhat

http://www.carmagblog.co.za/featured_posts/from-the-archives-bmw-325is/

HTH.

Daveco, that link will have measured performance figures (in kph) at the end as well. I don't think 100mph in 1.5 secs was possible with the car in manufacturer spec. It was fast, but not that fast. I don't think the car in the video is an SA 325iS. I doubt the manufacturer, even the SA one, would have released that car without recalibrating the rev counter (i.e. put the redline where it should be for the engine's state of tune).

Edited by Alfanatic on Friday 16th March 12:31

[garypotter]

Nors said:

garypotter said:

A great car in its day, limited numbers so has the rarity but 50-60K with no race pedigree hmmmm not one for me. If I had the E30 M3 I would want to use it.

No race pedigree????? In John McEnroe's words - YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!

E30 M3 was a touring car ledgend.

Agree though, classics should be used! Obviously though, collector ones with low mileage will usually be locked away.

Sorry Nors, I meant the car for sale with no miles no race pedigree and at 50K+
Yes the M3 E30 is one of the great tin tops of all time but an individual car for sale with no race history at that money is crazy.

[sim16v]

From personal experience, I think i've had a few of the different variations of E30 to compare.

There have been others!

These are my current resto projects





These are a couple of my previous cars.

The rarest of the rare 320is



My old 325 Sport




And my current 325 track car

[johnpeat]

garypotter said:

Yes the M3 E30 is one of the great tin tops of all time but an individual car for sale with no race history at that money is crazy.

It's a road car - not a race car!!

The E30 M3 itself has one of the most illustrious racing histories of any car ever made - but very few of the roadcars were used as racers because (AFAIK) BMW made plenty of race-ready M3s available to raceteams over and above the roadcars they built??

[sim16v]

There are some great threads going on various sites tracing the histories of the various race and rally M3s.

I think there were over 200 GpA touring/rally car kits released by BMW Motorsport and a lot of them still exist in one form or another.

[s m]

sim16v said:

From personal experience, I think i've had a few of the different variations of E30 to compare.

There have been others!

The rarest of the rare 320is

Nice collection.
What do you think of the 320iS compared to the M3s?

[sim16v]

Fantastic car, with the same mechanical "buzz" as the M3, and only slightly down on power.

To make good progress you needed to grab it by the scruff of the neck, but it thrived on it.

Handling was not as good as the M3, but it was virtually standard, nothing a decent suspension kit and M3 bushes wouldn't sort.

It did quite a few laps of the 'ring as my back up car and I never had problems with it.

Really liked the car, but it was specifically bought as it was cheap and it would sell well in X months time.

I did quite well out of it, but they are now advertised for small fortunes!

I would have liked to have kept it, but needs must and all that.

Still, I think I've found another 325 Sport that I think I can have a bit of a dabble on!

[GTRene]

AC Schnitzer S3 (2.5) and the Hartge H36 (3.6 M5) were nice cars too.

http://www.bayareamotorsport.com/tech.htm