RE: PH Blog: why base-spec 911s rule

[monthefish]

Thanks. Just maintaining standards.

[Mermaid]

monthefish said:

Thanks. Just raising standards.

EFA

[kurtiejjj]

Having driving practically the whole Porsche range of 2 years ago on various (work-related) occassions I think I have to agree with this. I loved the Boxster, it was just so much more agile and controlable than a 911. I just didn't really like the back-end dancing around over bumpy roads, it feels enthusiastic but annoying, a 4-wheel drive 911 didn't solve this either. Grip and speed through corners is phenomenal though, and rather easy to achieve. Still, I thought the Cayman was probably the most fun thing, grippy, practical, quick enough and if you don't look at the back-end all to often quite pretty.. So yes, basic models please..

[drpep]

boringbeige said:

I've driven tens of thousands of miles in a variety of 911's and boxsters but have never driven a Cayman. I spent 17 of my driving years swearing that i would never buy a 911. Then I had my arm twisted to borrow one for a long weekend. It was a 997 c2 manual with passive springs and steel brakes. I was asked to only do 'about 100 miles'. I did 700 and promptly ordered one. I bought a c2s manual and did 40,000 miles in 2 years in that car. It was brilliant, but never quite as brilliant as the one i borrowed. The 3.8 motor was not quite as smooth as the 3.6 and didn't breathe quite as well at the top end. The PASM dampers didn't ever feel quite as 'honest' as the passives, you can feel them trying to 'do their thing' and that interferes with me, as a driver, trying to do my thing. I've done a lot of miles in a GT2, great car but not as rounded or as much fun as much of the time as a c2 or c2s. Its a bit too stiffly suspended to be able to kill it across a bumpy Welsh moor. And the motor is a bit dull. Lots of power, but dull. A 993 RS CS stripped and caged is a riot round Oulton but abysmal on the road. A 997 GT3RS mk1 is superb as a cross country road car, probably my favourite ever road car, but rubbish round Oulton, but great round Silverstone. It needs space, the gears are too long. And on track where you are able to drive at the limit of available grip, the PASM suspension dilutes feel and purity. The 996 GT3RS is much more fun on a track but not as accelerative or as grippy, but without active dampers is gives better feedback and purer feel than the 997 version, but it is of course terrible on the road in comparison. The 991 c2s pdk that i have borrowed for a few hundred miles is brilliant at ten tenths but other than that you genuinely could be in a 5 series BMW. Most of the wide body 911's such as the GTS, have a handling balance that gives more understeer than a narrow car and they take much more brutality to move the rear, so aren't as much fun. Also the expensive PDK option adds a big chunk of weight to the back half of a 911 and this is really noticeable when the car is on the slide and it makes the nose bob more. In summary, of all the 911's that I have driven, a passive manual c2 is all you'll ever need, it'll do the daily grind whilst still feeling special (a 991 won't) and will be sooo much fun through the lanes. But, if you really love your driving, a narrow body 997 GT3 mk1 will stun you with it's on road abilities. The secret is that the steering feel, cabin ambience and mezger engine combine to make the car almost as much fun crawling along in traffic as it is flat out across Rannoch Moor. You'll note that neither of these cars have the wide body or pdk.

I couldn't agree with you more... But then my profile may illustrate something of a bias

The 991 C2S PDK I drove felt exactly as you describe above. It was dead; heavy and GT-like until wound up to the 9ths. The GT3 makes me smile even in London traffic, and (amazingly) always elicits a positive response from others. Best car i've ever owned.

[Gary C]

Ftumpch said:

Might get myself in trouble here, but...

I honestly don't get the 911 at all. The only appeal I can see is that it's the ultimate easy-does-it commuter car for people without kids. But as a sporty car that's entertaining to drive, sorry but no. Sure they're fast, but the way they deliver their performance, the characteristics of the engine, and the way they handle at the limit, .

So I ended up getting a 40 year old Ferrari Dino, do yourself a favour and test-drive a Ferrari 328 or a Lotus, Ginetta or TVR, and I promise you you'll never look twice at a 911 again.

Can't argue with your choice of car, Dino's look and sound fantastic and I believe they drive great.

911's do split opinion. They fill a niche that not may other cars do. Its trump card has always been the ability to feel almost as special as an exotic, while still being able to be driven every day. A 328, Espirit or a TVR are good choices but for most people, not a day to day proposition.

I do believe though that the USP for the 911 is being lost as they become ever more capable. Of the modern 911's only a gen 2 997 GT3 or RS would tempt me as a replacement for my 89 3.2 Carrera. I don't believe it can be described as uninspiring, stodgy, and predictable. You can feel every movement, use the weight of the engine to bring the rear around, dance on the nose to get grip and kill understeer.

Would I like a Dino to replace the Carrera ?, would I prefer a Dino to a GT3RS......... Of course I bloody well would, but I can't afford it (ok, I could but the kids would have to find somewhere else to live).

Would I consider a 911 as everyday transport, yes. Would I consider a 911 as a special weekend car, I already have one and I love it