RE: PH Blog: why base-spec 911s rule
Discussion
k-ink said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
yep because zonda's are renowned for a lack of grip
Of course it is fast in the right hands. Especially the race version. However it still has less grip than a car with twice the number of driven wheels. In mortal hands a zonda will prove more of a handful and so be more entertaining. Hammond certainly found this to be so on occasion. 
) but it wont affect ultimate cornering speed snorkel sucker said:
Out of interest then, what exactly about the Carrera 2 that makes it more pure than the '4?
Presumably - and I have never driven a 911 to find out - both cars would have similarly meaty tyres, or does the Carrera 2 forfeit a couple of inches laterally and vertically?
Unless you get into an older 911, all newer versions are going to be "over-tyred", right?
I am assuming here that it is predominantly the tyres / wheels that are making the difference, or does the 4WD system also corrupt the cars purity?
Feeling. You can feel the edge - not in a "I'm going to lose it" kind of way - more of a "I'm the pilot".Presumably - and I have never driven a 911 to find out - both cars would have similarly meaty tyres, or does the Carrera 2 forfeit a couple of inches laterally and vertically?
Unless you get into an older 911, all newer versions are going to be "over-tyred", right?
I am assuming here that it is predominantly the tyres / wheels that are making the difference, or does the 4WD system also corrupt the cars purity?
Garlick said:
See, for me the 2S is enough. It won't be for everyone, but for me it's perfect.
You could say, what about a 2S with another 30/40/50hp or with a closer box or tricker suspension too, but for me S = perfection.
I'm sure the 2 GTS is great (really great), every 911 I have driven is, but I'd save the cash and would be very happy with my 2S.
I suppose Porsche work on the basic car to make it near perfect for most people, the other models makes it different to meet a specific need and which compromises the original concept. You could say, what about a 2S with another 30/40/50hp or with a closer box or tricker suspension too, but for me S = perfection.
I'm sure the 2 GTS is great (really great), every 911 I have driven is, but I'd save the cash and would be very happy with my 2S.
I chose my base spec C2 with similar thinking
For UK road use, the C2 is easily adequate. Of course more power, upgraded brakes, more grip, turbos etc. can (and usually do) add to the fun and its easy to see why people buy higher up the 911 range. For track use then I would say its obligatory to have a bit more oomph a la GT3 etc.
But, for road use, with one eye on the licence, I am very happy with the C2.
For UK road use, the C2 is easily adequate. Of course more power, upgraded brakes, more grip, turbos etc. can (and usually do) add to the fun and its easy to see why people buy higher up the 911 range. For track use then I would say its obligatory to have a bit more oomph a la GT3 etc.
But, for road use, with one eye on the licence, I am very happy with the C2.
A base 2.7 Cayman is the only Porsche I have ever driven and it was epic. I remember being impressed by the driving position that was just spot on.
I cant see many arguing against the principle of this thread same old story less grip + not too much power = more accessible everyday fun.
I cant see many arguing against the principle of this thread same old story less grip + not too much power = more accessible everyday fun.
Irish said:
snorkel sucker said:
Out of interest then, what exactly about the Carrera 2 that makes it more pure than the '4?
Presumably - and I have never driven a 911 to find out - both cars would have similarly meaty tyres, or does the Carrera 2 forfeit a couple of inches laterally and vertically?
Unless you get into an older 911, all newer versions are going to be "over-tyred", right?
I am assuming here that it is predominantly the tyres / wheels that are making the difference, or does the 4WD system also corrupt the cars purity?
Feeling. You can feel the edge - not in a "I'm going to lose it" kind of way - more of a "I'm the pilot".Presumably - and I have never driven a 911 to find out - both cars would have similarly meaty tyres, or does the Carrera 2 forfeit a couple of inches laterally and vertically?
Unless you get into an older 911, all newer versions are going to be "over-tyred", right?
I am assuming here that it is predominantly the tyres / wheels that are making the difference, or does the 4WD system also corrupt the cars purity?
What size does the Carrera 2 use that makes such a difference? Even on a base spec model they would be in the region of 245's at least? That is still quite meaty for a car with under 400bhp.
I have 225's on my BMW 130, and that seems to be just about right for its 260bhp. I know people who have got far wider tyres than that and I can only assume that the car has way more much grip than feel.
I've driven a 964 carrera 2, and a 964RS. I'd take the carrera.
I've had some caterhams X-flow to Kseries R500. It's the X-flow I miss most.
It's all about charm, and balance. And that's the reason I've left my Mk1 MX-5 absolutely standard.
(somebody please explain all this to Danny in Hethel)
I've had some caterhams X-flow to Kseries R500. It's the X-flow I miss most.
It's all about charm, and balance. And that's the reason I've left my Mk1 MX-5 absolutely standard.
(somebody please explain all this to Danny in Hethel)
suffolk009 said:
I've driven a 964 carrera 2, and a 964RS. I'd take the carrera.
I've had some caterhams X-flow to Kseries R500. It's the X-flow I miss most.
It's all about charm, and balance. And that's the reason I've left my Mk1 MX-5 absolutely standard.
(somebody please explain all this to Danny in Hethel)
I love my cross flow - for the smell and noise alone! 964C2 - on the list.I've had some caterhams X-flow to Kseries R500. It's the X-flow I miss most.
It's all about charm, and balance. And that's the reason I've left my Mk1 MX-5 absolutely standard.
(somebody please explain all this to Danny in Hethel)
snorkel sucker said:
Out of interest then, what exactly about the Carrera 2 that makes it more pure than the '4?
For me the turn-in is nicer on the 2, it just feels better without the extra weight driving the front wheels. While it's far from nose heavy, you can feel it in the 4's and it affects the Turbo S too. Less about tail-out heroics, more about sharper turn-in.
For anyone that has ever visited a sports car forecourt, all the new cars sitting there a loaded up with goodies to bump up the profit margins. If you want a base spec car, you almost surely will have to order it.
For most of us mortals however, we purchase our toys second hand and have to really search what's out there for what we want.
For most of us mortals however, we purchase our toys second hand and have to really search what's out there for what we want.
The base 997s are great cars, but they're not for everyone, I can understand why people would want the more planted feel of the 4wd versions or the extra grunt of the turbo (if money isn't an issue) the 2wd 997 will let you know pretty quickly if your not driving it properly but I guess that's part of the appeal.
Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 27th March 11:02
Dave Hedgehog said:
is not grip down to the tyres?
Almost certainly not. Not quite the same comparison as Zonda/Veyron, but the Insignia and Mondeo have pretty comparable tyre sizes and spec; but the Ford will grip much harder into any corner, as a succession of dull hire cars will testify.Undoubtedly good tyres v bad tyres will affect any vehicle's grip level, but don't underestimate the value of decent suspension geometry and weight distribution. The BRZ/86 twins will have narrow rubber, but I'll bet my hat they'll grip into corners better than a wide shodden(?) 3-series.
thirsty said:
For anyone that has ever visited a sports car forecourt, all the new cars sitting there a loaded up with goodies to bump up the profit margins. If you want a base spec car, you almost surely will have to order it.
I do dream of the day I walk into a McLaren showroom and order one in orange with NO extras. Nothing. A poverty-spec full-on austerity McLaren. (think that's double oxymoronic, but there you are)Had all the carbon bits put onto my R500, I ticked every box. And by the time I got home I was missing the black-crackle painted dash.
...wonder if Ron would black-crackle paint those garish shiny alluminium bits on the Mp4-12c dash for me....
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