RE: PH Blog: why base-spec 911s rule

[Terminator X]

Garlick said:

garyhun said:

Not wishing to be a pedant but the BASE model is the Carrera, not the "S"

That's true enough. Oddly, I'd have Boxster base, Cayman base but I'd like my 911 to have an additional S. Fair point though.

For the wider track, simples!

TX.

[Terminator X]

xkrG said:

I wanted a 996 Carrera but 30% of them have had rebuilt engines, if that was a Toyota it would of been all over the news at 10. There is no excuse for that.

Really? I heard it's more like 1 in 20 so 5% ... small odds really.

TX.

[Gary C]

xkrG said:

Heres some contraversy for you

I want to love the 911, i really do, but i cant.

Every time i consider buying one, i sit in it and find it too german. In the world of a kitchen I am sure its a perfect scalpel knife, but in the real world I want character and the beetle has none.

It is pure, it is well built. But there is just something missing......a soul

I wanted a 996 Carrera but 30% of them have had rebuilt engines, if that was a Toyota it would of been all over the news at 10. There is no excuse for that.

I will probably give in one day and buy one as there is nothing else left to choose.

where am i going wrong ? what am i missing

Book yourself on a day at the Porsche center at Silverstone. Thrash a few and then think again

[Mermaid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

so soulful that it is infectious

[boringbeige]

I've driven tens of thousands of miles in a variety of 911's and boxsters but have never driven a Cayman. I spent 17 of my driving years swearing that i would never buy a 911. Then I had my arm twisted to borrow one for a long weekend. It was a 997 c2 manual with passive springs and steel brakes. I was asked to only do 'about 100 miles'. I did 700 and promptly ordered one. I bought a c2s manual and did 40,000 miles in 2 years in that car. It was brilliant, but never quite as brilliant as the one i borrowed. The 3.8 motor was not quite as smooth as the 3.6 and didn't breathe quite as well at the top end. The PASM dampers didn't ever feel quite as 'honest' as the passives, you can feel them trying to 'do their thing' and that interferes with me, as a driver, trying to do my thing. I've done a lot of miles in a GT2, great car but not as rounded or as much fun as much of the time as a c2 or c2s. Its a bit too stiffly suspended to be able to kill it across a bumpy Welsh moor. And the motor is a bit dull. Lots of power, but dull. A 993 RS CS stripped and caged is a riot round Oulton but abysmal on the road. A 997 GT3RS mk1 is superb as a cross country road car, probably my favourite ever road car, but rubbish round Oulton, but great round Silverstone. It needs space, the gears are too long. And on track where you are able to drive at the limit of available grip, the PASM suspension dilutes feel and purity. The 996 GT3RS is much more fun on a track but not as accelerative or as grippy, but without active dampers is gives better feedback and purer feel than the 997 version, but it is of course terrible on the road in comparison. The 991 c2s pdk that i have borrowed for a few hundred miles is brilliant at ten tenths but other than that you genuinely could be in a 5 series BMW. Most of the wide body 911's such as the GTS, have a handling balance that gives more understeer than a narrow car and they take much more brutality to move the rear, so aren't as much fun. Also the expensive PDK option adds a big chunk of weight to the back half of a 911 and this is really noticeable when the car is on the slide and it makes the nose bob more. In summary, of all the 911's that I have driven, a passive manual c2 is all you'll ever need, it'll do the daily grind whilst still feeling special (a 991 won't) and will be sooo much fun through the lanes. But, if you really love your driving, a narrow body 997 GT3 mk1 will stun you with it's on road abilities. The secret is that the steering feel, cabin ambience and mezger engine combine to make the car almost as much fun crawling along in traffic as it is flat out across Rannoch Moor. You'll note that neither of these cars have the wide body or pdk.

[johnpeat]

I was reading Evo earlier - in particular their 'somewhat out of character' decision to put the R8 and GTR ahead of the 911 in a group test.

It also occurred to me that they're testing a vanilla 911 which is designed to do what all vanilla 911s do - which is belong to fat old men who think it makes them look good.

The R8 tops a range of cars and should be the pinnacle of performance for that marque - ditto the GTR - but the 911 is just the cooking model for people who want 'that badge' and not on a "cheap" car like a Boxster or Cayman.

If you like em tho - all power to you...

[pagani1]

Base Car everytime if you can buy one. Every overpriced option just fleeces the buyer and dilutes the driving experience. Then there are cheeky b*****ds
who still charge for rear-wipers etc etc SURELY A 911 SAFETY ITEM MR. PORSCHE. Caveat Emptor especially on anything wider, lower, metallic, cowhide or base woofery. Most Sat Navs are out of date, coloured calipers sir-bah Humbug. All in all a vipers nest of inflated techno buffoonery-that's how they make more money-from poor deluded saps.

Edited by pagani1 on Wednesday 28th March 04:02

[Kawasicki]

johnpeat said:

I was reading Evo earlier - in particular their 'somewhat out of character' decision to put the R8 and GTR ahead of the 911 in a group test.

It also occurred to me that they're testing a vanilla 911 which is designed to do what all vanilla 911s do - which is belong to fat old men who think it makes them look good.

The R8 tops a range of cars and should be the pinnacle of performance for that marque - ditto the GTR - but the 911 is just the cooking model for people who want 'that badge' and not on a "cheap" car like a Boxster or Cayman.

If you like em tho - all power to you...

Weird, I'm not fat or old and I'd probably take a base 911, I'm not keen on awd and some of the hotter models look like they are trying too hard.

[Garlick]

Definitely go 911 over R8, no question.

[CHIEF]

It will be a sad day when there is no 911's available with a manual gearbox and it looks like its heading that way

[Lightningman]

98C4S said:

What about the 2WD GTS?

Having gnawed my way through:

996 C4
996 Turbo
996 GT3
997 C2S
997 Turbo
997 RS
and now using a 997 C2 GTS daily, I can honestly say that for road driving and overall practicality, the GTS sits top of the pile for me. It is more than fast enough for road use, feels nimble and communicative and exhibits most of the raw pleasure of the GT3 without getting tiring.

The less is more argument is an easy story to write about 911s but the truth is that you could easily have 3 911s in the garage and each would offer a different appeal and suit a different circumstance (track, long distance GT and perfect all-rounder). Imho, the GTS is the closest to the perfect all-round 911.

[Lightningman]

Lightningman said:

Having gnawed my way through:

996 C4
996 Turbo
996 GT3
997 C2S
997 Turbo
997 RS
and am now using a 997 C2 GTS daily, I can honestly say that for road driving and overall practicality, the GTS sits top of the pile for me. It is more than fast enough for road use, feels nimble and communicative and exhibits most of the raw pleasure of the GT3 without getting tiring.

The less is more argument is an easy story to write about 911s but the truth is that you could easily have 3 911s in the garage and each would offer a different appeal and suit a different circumstance (track, long distance GT and perfect all-rounder). Imho, the GTS is the closest to the perfect all-round 911.

[toon10]

The only 2 911's I've driven were a 996 C2 and a 996 C4S tiptronic. The C2 was a much better machine. The gearbox in the C4S didn't help but the C2 just felt more alive, more resopnsive and better resolved. It even seemed to handle better which is odd given the wider track of the C4S.

[MaxAndRuby]

It was either '89 and a 964 C4, or 1990 and C2

[SFO]

boringbeige said:

I've driven tens of thousands of miles in a variety of 911's and boxsters but have never driven a Cayman. I spent 17 of my driving years swearing that i would never buy a 911. Then I had my arm twisted to borrow one for a long weekend. It was a 997 c2 manual with passive springs and steel brakes. I was asked to only do 'about 100 miles'. I did 700 and promptly ordered one. I bought a c2s manual and did 40,000 miles in 2 years in that car. It was brilliant, but never quite as brilliant as the one i borrowed. The 3.8 motor was not quite as smooth as the 3.6 and didn't breathe quite as well at the top end. The PASM dampers didn't ever feel quite as 'honest' as the passives, you can feel them trying to 'do their thing' and that interferes with me, as a driver, trying to do my thing. I've done a lot of miles in a GT2, great car but not as rounded or as much fun as much of the time as a c2 or c2s. Its a bit too stiffly suspended to be able to kill it across a bumpy Welsh moor. And the motor is a bit dull. Lots of power, but dull. A 993 RS CS stripped and caged is a riot round Oulton but abysmal on the road. A 997 GT3RS mk1 is superb as a cross country road car, probably my favourite ever road car, but rubbish round Oulton, but great round Silverstone. It needs space, the gears are too long. And on track where you are able to drive at the limit of available grip, the PASM suspension dilutes feel and purity. The 996 GT3RS is much more fun on a track but not as accelerative or as grippy, but without active dampers is gives better feedback and purer feel than the 997 version, but it is of course terrible on the road in comparison. The 991 c2s pdk that i have borrowed for a few hundred miles is brilliant at ten tenths but other than that you genuinely could be in a 5 series BMW. Most of the wide body 911's such as the GTS, have a handling balance that gives more understeer than a narrow car and they take much more brutality to move the rear, so aren't as much fun. Also the expensive PDK option adds a big chunk of weight to the back half of a 911 and this is really noticeable when the car is on the slide and it makes the nose bob more. In summary, of all the 911's that I have driven, a passive manual c2 is all you'll ever need, it'll do the daily grind whilst still feeling special (a 991 won't) and will be sooo much fun through the lanes. But, if you really love your driving, a narrow body 997 GT3 mk1 will stun you with it's on road abilities. The secret is that the steering feel, cabin ambience and mezger engine combine to make the car almost as much fun crawling along in traffic as it is flat out across Rannoch Moor. You'll note that neither of these cars have the wide body or pdk.

beautifully put, thank you.

[Oelholm]

Article said:

Garlick took the 911 C4 GTS out and, hand on heart, would rather a Carrera 2 - here's why

- Completely OT, but I would like to know if this is correct English? Shouldn't it be "would rather have/buy..."? I only ask as I'm not a native English speaker and I have seen this used before, but I am unsure whether or not it's correct.

...In regards to the article, I'm very much in favour of base-spec cars and would have a Carrera S in place of a 4S (the "S" not being -quite- base-spec, though...).
Fat chance of that ever happening however, over here a new Carrera S is nearly £250K.

[Wills2]

xkrG said:

Heres some contraversy for you

I want to love the 911, i really do, but i cant.

Every time i consider buying one, i sit in it and find it too german. In the world of a kitchen I am sure its a perfect scalpel knife, but in the real world I want character and the beetle has none.

It is pure, it is well built. But there is just something missing......a soul

I wanted a 996 Carrera but 30% of them have had rebuilt engines, if that was a Toyota it would of been all over the news at 10. There is no excuse for that.

I will probably give in one day and buy one as there is nothing else left to choose.

where am i going wrong ? what am i missing

Everything, a 911 is a very soulful car, it talks to you through the steering and seat base gets annoyed at sloppy driving kicking, bucking and bobing when you are hamfisted, but is wonderful when you get it right.

The engine sound is unique and the howl as it passes 5k is lovely to hear and never wearing.

IMHO no other car sounds, goes or handles like a 911 I'm not saying that makes it better than the competition but it certainly makes it different.

As for the engine failures they're over stated on the internet and I'd be interested as to where you get the 30% figure from.

[Wills2]

johnpeat said:

I was reading Evo earlier - in particular their 'somewhat out of character' decision to put the R8 and GTR ahead of the 911 in a group test.

It also occurred to me that they're testing a vanilla 911 which is designed to do what all vanilla 911s do - which is belong to fat old men who think it makes them look good.

The R8 tops a range of cars and should be the pinnacle of performance for that marque - ditto the GTR - but the 911 is just the cooking model for people who want 'that badge' and not on a "cheap" car like a Boxster or Cayman.

If you like em tho - all power to you...

I suspect that that is an opinion based on your thoughts rather than any real experience of the car?

[Riggers]

Oelholm said:

Article said:

Garlick took the 911 C4 GTS out and, hand on heart, would rather a Carrera 2 - here's why

- Completely OT, but I would like to know if this is correct English? Shouldn't it be "would rather have/buy..."? I only ask as I'm not a native English speaker and I have seen this used before, but I am unsure whether or not it's correct.

Technically I suppose it's not strictly correct, but it is a kind of informal idiomatic English. Originally a sort of upper-class quasi-abbreviation, I believe.

So yes, you are right in that there is a verb missing, but you can sort of get away with it.

[binnerboy]

if you want to have fun without losing your licence due to speed (dangerous driving is another matter entirely) get a morris minor, drifts roundabouts at less than 30 mph in the wet and drum brakes require planning !