RE: New 991 GT3 and Turbo busy at the 'ring
Discussion
I haven't read any of the thread as it seems to be a fruitless debate that goes around in circles. But it seems to me that the key question is whether the GT3's ultimate aim is speed or driver interaction. For me it is speed, which makes PDK the natural choice, even if I would prefer a manual.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Just a point of clarification: the gearbox in the road-going 996/997 GT3 is a development of the gearbox used in the 996 GT3 Cup / GT3 RS / RSR race cars...Porsche gearbox background...
The very first Porsche gearbox was a transaxle (a common case sharing the gear stack and the differential). All Porsche 356-997 street and race cars share this same design theory. From the first 356 design through the 1980s 911s, Porsche used their own design synchronizers. Even with several evolutions of their own designs, they still proved to be problematic.
The Porsche 911 transmission took on a huge improvement in reliability, durability, and ease of operation in 1987 with Porsche design 950, commonly called the G50 gearbox. They are used from 1987 to present day in all 911, 964, 993, 996, and 997-bodied cars. These heavy-duty gearboxes, made by Getrag, use the Borg-Warner style synchromesh. A variant of this is still used in the 996/997 GT3, GT3R, and 996/997TT/GT2 cars.
As with the earlier Porsche transmissions, Porsche has manufactured many different gear ratios, as well as ring and pinion sets to allow the gearboxes to be set up for virtually any kind of driving. Most of the street car gearing is selected with fuel economy in mind, so there are many opportunities for performance improvements with changing gear sets or ring and pinions. The first version of the gearbox was a 5-speed, but with introduction of the 993 brought on a 6-speed version of the G50 gearbox. The 993TT and four-wheel drive 993 and 993 4S use a similar gearbox with a driveshaft that extends through the nosecone to drive the front wheels.
The G96 gearbox was introduced at the start of production 996/986 cars. The most noticeable difference in these gearboxes is the cable shifter. All 996/986 cars other than 1998-early 1999 996 GT3 cars use a cable shifter.
The 996 GT3 gearbox is different (type G96/90, G96/93, G96/96) from the standard 996. The GT3 gearbox has evolved from the 993 GT2 which, in turn, evolved from the 993 TT, and before that, the 1989 930 G50/50. The 996 GT3 box is also used in the 996TT/GT2 and 996 GT3 Cup/GT3 RS/RSR race cars. It has a dedicated oil pump and external oil/water intercooler, steel synchronizer rings on gears 3-5, and interchangeable gear ratios (main shaft assembled from individual ratios that are positioned, not pressed into place), and a 40% / 60% asymmetrical clutch type limited slip differential.
At the end of the 996 GT3 RSR production, the sequential gear selection capability came to Porsche racing, the G97 6-speed gearbox was born. Holinger Engineering was consulted for design and production of the internal gear sets. The 997 Cup brought the sequential to mainstream production. The 997 GT3 RSR also uses the same type dog engagement design. Externally, these gearboxes look the same as their predecessor G96 boxes, using many of the same castings, coolers, oil pump, etc. These transmissions have proven themselves to be quite reliable, and as before offering quite a wide range of gear selections. Early 996 Cup/GT3Rs can be converted to sequential capabilities if a customer so desires.
After a year or so of testing, the 2008 997 GT3 RSR introduced a new "clean sheet of paper" design to the transaxle. With Porsche's recent supercar the V10 engined Carrera GT, a new manufacturer (Hör) was brought in to design the 6-speed gearbox. This manufacturer also designed and developed Porsche's new gearbox for the RS Spyder. This successful relationship with Porsche Motorsport also brought new eyes to one of the biggest issues with the G50 based gearbox. In the Porsche race world the axle geometry has been an issue for the past two decades. As the cars are lowered for racing, the axles tend to have more and more extreme angles, causing axle failure. This issue has been resolved with the new design. The gearbox is also lighter, and focused on details internally to decrease the friction on contact points...
Rrroro said:
I disagree - camo is one thing but significant architectural body modifications on a test mule would compromise the testing itself. E.g. If that was a GT3 test mule then the exhausts being in the 'wrong' place for a GT3 would surely impact the testing of the exhaust systems. I've attached a pic of the 991 GT3 test mule - the car in the video is a Carrera S
I agree, not a GT3, sound way too tame to be a GT3 too maybe they are developing a sports pack for the Carrera S you think?Porsche should hire that BMW driver who overtook those fancy 991's and had a better slow-in fast-out exit line...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
No compelling argument to share it as well. Manual box certainly makes the GT3 unique...PDK would make braking and accelerating into and out of corners less of an episode probably unless taken to a over the limit near crash scenario. However, I've never read or hear people racing go-kart complain of having two pedals but nor can I deny having three and six speed would make it more tempting. Racing myself? Manual box anyday. Brake like a mad man, heel and toe just before turn in, tap, tap, tap to get the car squirming for grip mid corner, slamming an up-shift for a smooth exit and slamming more in on the straight! Edited by Caviar on Monday 2nd April 04:02
That's a good call - I think it could well be a Carrera S with a Power Kit being tested. It would certainly be consistent with previous offerings from Porsche designed to boost the performance of Carrera models.
Regards the manual vs PDK debate - I think I stopped caring about this a while ago personally - I'm confident that Porsche will deliver a 991 GT3 that as a package will blow away everyone concerned.
Regards the manual vs PDK debate - I think I stopped caring about this a while ago personally - I'm confident that Porsche will deliver a 991 GT3 that as a package will blow away everyone concerned.
PDK 
Just seen the 991 Turbo - test car - its sitting in the Stuttgart Museum covered in gaffa tape on the front and in particular over the back wing, it even had stickers over the rear lights to hide them. I will post some pics when i get the chance. i was surprised they would have that on display.
spareparts said:
The GT3 is a road legal, track-focused car. If the focus is not the track where pace, dynamics, and efficiency are paramount, then buy a Carrera S.
PDK is a natural evolution of a more efficient and capable gearbox. Any gearbox whether manual or PDK is about transmitting, managing deployment, and maintaining power through the drivetrain... and PDK does all that better than a manual.
Careful fella! If you follow what your saying to its natural conclusion about efficiency (as has happened in Le Mans racing) it's only a matter of time before we're all driving triple clutch, quad turbo, diesel 911s!PDK is a natural evolution of a more efficient and capable gearbox. Any gearbox whether manual or PDK is about transmitting, managing deployment, and maintaining power through the drivetrain... and PDK does all that better than a manual.
I for one, hope hell has long since frozen over when that happens!
991GT3 spyshot on gtspirit.com:
http://www.gtspirit.com/2012/05/22/spyshots-2013-p...
More spyshots on teamspeed.com:
http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/72882-spied-2013-po...
Article in Car Magainzine:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Searc...
http://www.gtspirit.com/2012/05/22/spyshots-2013-p...
More spyshots on teamspeed.com:
http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/72882-spied-2013-po...
Article in Car Magainzine:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Searc...
tuffer said:
goodhand said:
benzito said:
Boring! for the money of a new turbo or gt3 (I'm guessing the new 991's will be 80-100k) the italian alternatives seem much more interesting, and will certainly depreciate a lot less,
Can only think of the Maserati Granturismo and Quattroporte which'd fall into that price bracket - 2 of the fastest depreciating cars out there.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff