RE: GT 86 vs BRZ: who 'owns' the Toyobaru?'

[RemyMartin]

mat205125 said:

Don't forget the work they did in conjunction with Ferrari when jointly developing the F355 and the MR2

[Munich]

poprock said:

There’s shome mishtake here, surely? “Subaru engineers told us there are differences in spring rate - the BRZ stiffer at the back slightly while the GT 86 is stiffer at the rear …”

That is what I thought.

[otolith]

darth_pies said:

In other words, rock-solid mechanicals clothed in a body design 10 years out of date on the day it was launched.

The proportions look old fashioned because the car isn't a rebodied front wheel drive hatchback like you've become used to seeing from European manufacturers - that's why it doesn't look like an orthopedic shoe.

[RichTBiscuit]

otolith said:

The proportions look old fashioned because the car isn't a rebodied front wheel drive hatchback like you've become used to seeing from European manufacturers - that's why it doesn't look like an orthopedic shoe.

Well said. It looks great and very modern.

[Dr Interceptor]

MonkeyMatt said:

uzuki Splash is same as Vauxhall Agila! Ford Ka is same as fiat 500 underneath

Apologies - all those small cars blur into one!

[Angelp]

Still looks like a Hyundai Coupe of old.

[Munich]

s m said:

Anyone think of many other occasions when 2 manufacturers have released almost essentially the same car mechanically but with different trim/equipment badging?

Sort of like the Saxo VTS/Peugeot 106 GTi situation?

But these are from the same company (as in parent company).

[StormLoaded]

The lateral G skid pan results are impressive as well.. for a car that's on budget tyres

Skidpan Comparison Figures	lateral g
Ferrari Enzo	1.01
Porsche Carrera GT	0.99
Saleen S7	0.99
Ford GT40	0.99
Lotus Elise	0.99
Porsche Ruf R Turbo	0.98
Porsche 996 Turbo	0.97
Porsche Boxster S	0.96
Lamborghini Gallardo	0.95
Corvette Z06	0.94
Ferrari 360	0.93
Porsche 911 GT3	0.92
GT 86	0.92
Honda NSX	0.91
Lamborghini Murcielago	0.90
McLaren F1	0.86

table source
GT86/BRZ result source


[quote]
Skid pad: Balance, balance, balance. Easy to walk up to limit and beyond with ample control and feedback. Driving near the limit of grip is truly this car's strength. It balances steering vs. throttle better than just about anything else. Fun

[/quote]

[Kamox]

The question is... who 'owns' the Toyobaru?
The question is... http://youtu.be/j_T9YtA1mRQ

[s m]

WCZ said:

I wonder what the difference around the same track would be?

There will be endless debate on this one I foresee.......rather like the old Saxo VTS/106Gti arguments

[Fastdruid]

StormLoaded said:

The lateral G skid pan results are impressive as well.. for a car that's on budget tyres

Skidpan Comparison Figures	lateral g
Ferrari Enzo	1.01
Porsche Carrera GT	0.99
Saleen S7	0.99
Ford GT	0.99
Lotus Elise	0.99
Porsche Ruf R Turbo	0.98
Porsche 996 Turbo	0.97
Porsche Boxster S	0.96
Lamborghini Gallardo	0.95
Corvette Z06	0.94
Ferrari 360	0.93
Porsche 911 GT3	0.92
Subaru GT 86 ESC off	0.92
Honda NSX	0.91
Lamborghini Murcielago	0.90
Subaru GT 86 ESC on	0.88
McLaren F1	0.86

table source
GT86/BRZ result source

I've modified it to show that they tested it with and without ESC, I'm not sure you can just join the results from two magazines like that though, who knows what grip the different skid pans had.

[BigTom85]

Munich said:

But these are from the same company (as in parent company).

Galaxy/Alhambra/Sharan

[StormLoaded]

Fastdruid said:

I'm not sure you can just join the results from two magazines like that though, who knows what grip the different skid pans had.

true, but the results are still impressive

[BarnatosGhost]

BigTom85 said:

Munich said:

But these are from the same company (as in parent company).

Galaxy/Alhambra/Sharan

Alfa 164 / Saab 9000 / Lancia Thema
Honda Legend / Rover 800 (?)
Honda Accord / Rover 600
Honda Concerto / Rover 200
Lots of Ford / Mazda shared cars (sort of the same company, sort of not)
Lotus Europa / Vauxhall VX220

Edited by BarnatosGhost on Thursday 29th March 15:40

[driftingphil]

This car would fit right in on the hyundai (i) line, it even look like a hyundai from every angle.

If only nissan re released the s15 spec r across the worlds markets, it would automatically be a better competitor with more intresting features sr20det anyone! 2.0L turbo engine pushing 250bhp and could easily be tweaked to over 300+ and it looks more modern than this brz/ gt86.

I like the concept but it needs 50% more power to be remotely intresting.

[s m]

Fastdruid said:

StormLoaded said:

The lateral G skid pan results are impressive as well.. for a car that's on budget tyres

Skidpan Comparison Figures	lateral g
Ferrari Enzo	1.01
Porsche Carrera GT	0.99
Saleen S7	0.99
Ford GT	0.99
Lotus Elise	0.99
Porsche Ruf R Turbo	0.98
Porsche 996 Turbo	0.97
Porsche Boxster S	0.96
Lamborghini Gallardo	0.95
Corvette Z06	0.94
Ferrari 360	0.93
Porsche 911 GT3	0.92
Subaru GT 86 ESC off	0.92
Honda NSX	0.91
Lamborghini Murcielago	0.90
Subaru GT 86 ESC on	0.88
McLaren F1	0.86

table source
GT86/BRZ result source

I've modified it to show that they tested it with and without ESC, I'm not sure you can just join the results from two magazines like that though, who knows what grip the different skid pans had.

Has the Alfa SZ disappeared off the top of the table??

[Oddball RS]

Munich said:

poprock said:

There’s shome mishtake here, surely? “Subaru engineers told us there are differences in spring rate - the BRZ stiffer at the back slightly while the GT 86 is stiffer at the rear …”

That is what I thought.

+1 that about sums it up, they are the same, deal with it, what next one uses less paint that the other.

[scholesy]

Ha, look at the diagrams it appears Toyota and Subaru are both claiming to have had the biggest part in designing and engineering it, at least to the shareholders by the looks of it "no I thought of it first" said Toyota

[s m]

Oddball RS said:

Munich said:

poprock said:

There’s shome mishtake here, surely? “Subaru engineers told us there are differences in spring rate - the BRZ stiffer at the back slightly while the GT 86 is stiffer at the rear …”

That is what I thought.

+1 that about sums it up, they are the same, deal with it, what next one uses less paint that the oUther.

Those sort of differences have been enough to fuel countless "which is best/fastest/classiest" threads between Saxo VTS and 106 GTi on here alone, let alone the whole Internet.

Let's face it, us car geeks love to dissect the minutiae

[tommy vercetti]

I'd have the Subaru, even if they are the same, just miles cooler than the Toyota,