RE: PH Blog: don't fancy yours much

[Felters]

"in danger of written off for being too cute "

Not much risk of that...

ETA I am acksherley a fan of the Mini - but the coupe? It must have been a very liquid lunch at the board meeting when that one got the go ahead.

Edited by Felters on Saturday 31st March 07:07

[once]

nickfrog said:

So you're letting the marketing prevent you from liking it ?

BMW own the name but they never claimed they would be producing replicas of the original.

They are truly amazing to drive but if image is so important to you, then I can see your point.

Yes, the marketing affects me. How a car looks is important. I've never owned a barbie-pink car and being a big hairy bloke, I strongly suspect I never will. Being the wrong side of 40, I also don't go in for yoof culture and bling. Nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't work for me. So you are not going to find me in a car with flashy chrome bits, big wheels or spoilers. I don't do flags on the roof, stripes or fancy paint jobs.

Minis are good cars. But they are over-marketed for my taste. Trying too hard. And as I said, that marketing will win them many friends and customers. But it will also lose them customers. Including me. If you design a car that appeals especially to women, you have to expect that some men will be turned off by it.

Are they "truly amazing" to drive? By all accounts each and every mini is a competent FWD hatch. If that's what you are looking for, then fine. But I've never read a review of a mini that claimed that it was a game changer. That it was so much better than the opposition that you could overcome the way it looks because it drives so much better than the alternatives.

I went shopping for a small car that was discrete, fun and economical. I walked past the Mini Cooper D and bought a 120 D. I'm not saying that either one is a better car than the other. But the 1 series fitted my needs much better than the mini. Let's just say that 170 bhp and RWD puts it in a different class.

Nothing wrong with a mini. My missus is tempted. That or the Fiat 500 or Audi A1. Cars that I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in. And that's the point.

[Johnboy Mac]

Riggers said:

Easy, tiger. I realise that, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. 'Tis what makes PH interesting. My point was that it's also Garlick's opinion; to call it the 'worst blog' seemed harsh, is all...

Yes, I came across harsh. So, sorry Garlick.

What I should have said and made clear is that the blog is fairly crap and no suprise considering the car being discussed, that's not a reflection on Garlick, it's reflection on the car.

[Waugh-terfall]

Seems a lot of people find the Coupe ugly, but I just think it's coming from a bit of a shock to the system, it'll grow on those that dislike, I'm sure.

[Happy Eater]

Waugh-terfall said:

Seems a lot of people find the Coupe ugly, but I just think it's coming from a bit of a shock to the system, it'll grow on those that dislike, I'm sure.

Nah

There are loads of cars I dislike - RRS, new beetle, juke, that are not ugly,
There are ugly cars I like - G wagon, GTR, Scoobies,
And then there is an ugly car I also dislike errrr Mini Coupe

But each to their own

[jason61c]

I had a look around one and thought it was all out of proportion.

Also looks like its been hit with a ghey stick!

[redgriff500]

Kawasicki said:

So you choose the mini, it has a unique style, with a very good yet run of the mill fwd econo drivetrain. A certain demographic will certainly be impressed.

Or you can buy an uncompromised rwd drivers car, a car where balance on corner exit is actually possible.

Who will be impressed? Car and driving enthusiasts maybe.

But that's the point as the coupe is a 2 seater you could be in a RWD coupe or convertible.

Mini anything or MX5 - no contest for me.

[scruffty]

Someone round the corner from me has one, same as the pics, jcw pack etc.
It makes a good noise popping and burbling. I'm intrigued, are there any decent reviews of the car around?

[Garlick]

scruffty said:

Someone round the corner from me has one, same as the pics, jcw pack etc.
It makes a good noise popping and burbling. I'm intrigued, are there any decent reviews of the car around?

Our review will come in about a week or so. We hope it can be classed as decent....

[Blib]

I drove by one coming in the opposite direction the other day. Even with such a brief glimpse, it is striking in appearance. Personally, I think that it will be a welcome addition to the roads of Britain.

I'd rather see something such as this coupe, with its radically different styling than the usual crop on non-entities that clog up the roads, that's for sure.

[LuS1fer]

I saw one today - regardless of anything, it doesn't look like a coupe, it looks like a fat boulder.

[nickfrog]

once said:

nickfrog said:

So you're letting the marketing prevent you from liking it ?

BMW own the name but they never claimed they would be producing replicas of the original.

They are truly amazing to drive but if image is so important to you, then I can see your point.

Yes, the marketing affects me. How a car looks is important. I've never owned a barbie-pink car and being a big hairy bloke, I strongly suspect I never will. Being the wrong side of 40, I also don't go in for yoof culture and bling. Nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't work for me. So you are not going to find me in a car with flashy chrome bits, big wheels or spoilers. I don't do flags on the roof, stripes or fancy paint jobs.

Minis are good cars. But they are over-marketed for my taste. Trying too hard. And as I said, that marketing will win them many friends and customers. But it will also lose them customers. Including me. If you design a car that appeals especially to women, you have to expect that some men will be turned off by it.

Are they "truly amazing" to drive? By all accounts each and every mini is a competent FWD hatch. If that's what you are looking for, then fine. But I've never read a review of a mini that claimed that it was a game changer. That it was so much better than the opposition that you could overcome the way it looks because it drives so much better than the alternatives.

I went shopping for a small car that was discrete, fun and economical. I walked past the Mini Cooper D and bought a 120 D. I'm not saying that either one is a better car than the other. But the 1 series fitted my needs much better than the mini. Let's just say that 170 bhp and RWD puts it in a different class.

Nothing wrong with a mini. My missus is tempted. That or the Fiat 500 or Audi A1. Cars that I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in. And that's the point.

Fair comments although in no particular order :

1 - Stripes are not compulsory.
2 - Fancy paintwork is not compulsory
3 - Big wheels are not compulsory
4 - Flag on roof is not compulsory
5 - I know the 120d very well indeed and RWD doesn't seem to prevent it from being an understeer bh compared to how neutral a Mini is.
6 - I don't associate gender to cars, I genuinely don't understand that notion.
7 - Many tests show how far superior the Mini is compared to its competitors from a dynamic point of view, just one here http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2037...

[once]

nickfrog said:

Fair comments although in no particular order :

1 - Stripes are not compulsory.
2 - Fancy paintwork is not compulsory
3 - Big wheels are not compulsory
4 - Flag on roof is not compulsory
5 - I know the 120d very well indeed and RWD doesn't seem to prevent it from being an understeer bh compared to how neutral a Mini is.
6 - I don't associate gender to cars, I genuinely don't understand that notion.
7 - Many tests show how far superior the Mini is compared to its competitors from a dynamic point of view, just one here http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2037...

But just look what else is compulsory with the Mini ... FWD, that stoopid central round speedo, the chunky toylike controls, "retro chic", Foxtons, every other one you see being festooned with flags, chrome, stripes, etc, the fat versions that look like a maxi on steroids ...

So sure I could spec up a Mini without some of the yoof stuff that doesn't work for me. But it would still be a mini, hooked up to the same marketing and image as all the rest of them.

And don't forget we are talking about the coupe here. Not exactly the quietest car on the planet.

So sure you quote a group test between two FWD cars. Let's just see what that group test says about the Mini interior...

"Inside, the feeling of form not following function escalates rapidly. We’ve always liked the Mini’s bold and original cabin architecture, but we’re not sure about this. It’s as if the design team had an everything-on-the-table brainstorming session and instead of filtering out the best ideas, decided to use the lot. So now the centre-stage speedo is the size of Alan Partridge’s extra-large dinner plate, and the always slightly dubious use of caged toggle switches has spread to the roof.

To be fair, the cabin has been improved. The redesigned seats are more comfortable and supportive, and are much easier to fold and adjust than before. There’s also a little more rear legroom and the centre console has been narrowed to widen the footwells. But while much of the redesigned dashboard is clearly well put together from classy materials, that centre console looks desperately low -rent, with the kind of small, flimsy controls and gaudy over-styling you’d be disappointed to find on a fifty-quid music centre. Partial redemption comes by the way of the ambient lighting feature, which offers five positions ranging between orange and blue. Fun and effective, but we don’t see the Clio quaking in its boots."

"... flimsy controls and gaudy over-styling you’d be disappointed to find on a fifty-quid music centre ..." Yup, that just about sums it up for me.

The 120D understeers when compared to a mini? Now that one I enjoyed. Still giggling about it.

There's nothing wrong with a mini. It does what it does pretty well. I've been saying for years that BMW should build a FWD hatch to appeal to a particular market segment. And they've done a pretty good job of it. But even the article you quote talks about it being over-designed.

And that means that the market segment it appeals to doesn't include me.

There's one bit you didn't understand, about cars being for a particular gender. Happy to explain... You see, when a car company designs a new car it has a long hard think about who it is going to sell that car to. Petrolheads or OAPs? Yoofs or families? Men or women? That's when they do their research with focus groups to work out what each group is looking for in a car. It's called demographics.

And having chosen their target market, they design the car to appeal to that market. Simples.

[nickfrog]

Simples indeed if image is more important to you than function. Each to their own.

120d lateral grip characteristic is heavily aimed at understeer (maybe another demographics choice ?) compared to the Mini which is far more neutral on the limit, despite big rear neg camber.

[alancovkid]

sorry to say but the mini coupe looks like a sla**ed a**e!!

think the design team are trying to build the worst mini they can.

first there was an estate car which looks so wrong, then one that looks like it eaten another mini for breakfast, but its ok it's a 4x4 !!

then a mini coupe !! dear oh dear how not to do it!!

sorry if mini are trying hard for the pink pound then they should win hands down. dont think many men will be rushing out to buy one.

alancovkid

[Garlick]

I like the way it drives, I love the chassis, the engine and the way every Mini drives.

You don't, that's fair enough, but it doesn't mean your view is the definitive answer and I'm wrong. Its just opinion after all

[once]

nickfrog said:

Simples indeed if image is more important to you than function. Each to their own.

120d lateral grip characteristic is heavily aimed at understeer (maybe another demographics choice ?) compared to the Mini which is far more neutral on the limit, despite big rear neg camber.

Read the article you sent to me. Not just the bits that you like reading, where it says that the mini is brilliant. All of it.

Then read what I've been saying about the mini and why I have a problem with it. For that matter, read what Garlick has been saying too. And several others in this thread.

Notice the similarities?

And, remember that this is an article that you chose. It compares two FWD hot hatches against each other - and has exactly the same problem with the mini that many of us have.

When we buy a car we need both form and function. Ability and looks and image. the whole package. If you bought a mini and you are happy with it, that's great. It doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for many people on this thread.

[nickfrog]

once said:

When we buy a car we need both form and function. Ability and looks and image. the whole package.

... and you bought a 1-series.

[arkenphel]

It could be worse. He could've bought an Audi. (I kid! I kid!)

both cars are aimed at drivers. If the weren't, the 1 series would've been FWD and the mini would have the steering feel and involvement of a Mk1 VW Touareg*. Let's not let this thread get personal, shall we?

• this is based entirely on my personal experience and does not in any way represent any slight to anyone with a Touareg

[ess]

Having recently driven a friends unmodified '04MY Cooper S Hatch around Blackheath, London, I now understand the appeal.
Pure 'point and shoot' joy.
Much more confident into the corners that my current E85, although obviously feels a tad underpowered compared to the ragtop out of the bends.

And back to the article -
The roof on the Coupe is just wrong.
Like an ill fitting toupee.
Mini 'Paul Daniels' edition perhaps ?