RE: Blood Brothers: Mazda 3 MPS vs Ford Focus ST

[tommy vercetti]

That Focus just reminded me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqniD9qO4oY

[Mastodon2]

VTEC. VTEC. VTEC!

Not V-TECH.

Also, when were EP3s about autobahn drag racing?

[stargazer30]

Gun said:

rb5er said:

driftingphil said:

A friend had an st mk1 around 270bhp
Let's just say There was nothing in it Against my standard Ctr ep3

Hey guys don't laugh, this is very possible. I know I've had 3 FSTs and have on occasion had a play with the odd CTR EP3. You need to realise a few facts here..

A remapped ST to 270bhp, well actually if its "just" a remap its about 260bhp and as soon as you start to hoon it you loose 20bhp of that as the stty stock intercooler can't cope.

The standard ST suspension and its weight means unless we are talking straight line the CTR has a an advantage.

On the twisties I am willing to bet the remap actually slowed the ST down. The low torque CTR if its driven correctly can get all its power down and get max power to grip in the bends. The remap on the ST will make this pretty much impossible. Way too much low down torque and most the remaps have aggressive boost strategies.

Also as already mentioned the ST turbo can't hold full boost at high RPM unless the downpipe/cat has been sorted.

So in summary. Lazy everyday driving/drag strip jobs - ST. Twisties/Handling - EP3 CTR no contest.

[Gun]

stargazer30 said:

So in summary. Lazy everyday driving/drag strip jobs - ST. Twisties/Handling - EP3 CTR no contest.

That's kind of our point, don't think anyone is suggesting a Civic wouldn't make a good back road blaster but when it comes to acceleration against a Focus with 270 (alleged) bhp? As you say, no contest.

[rb5er]

stargazer30 said:

Hey guys don't laugh, this is very possible. I know I've had 3 FSTs and have on occasion had a play with the odd CTR EP3. You need to realise a few facts here..

A remapped ST to 270bhp, well actually if its "just" a remap its about 260bhp and as soon as you start to hoon it you loose 20bhp of that as the stty stock intercooler can't cope.

The standard ST suspension and its weight means unless we are talking straight line the CTR has a an advantage.

On the twisties I am willing to bet the remap actually slowed the ST down. The low torque CTR if its driven correctly can get all its power down and get max power to grip in the bends. The remap on the ST will make this pretty much impossible. Way too much low down torque and most the remaps have aggressive boost strategies.

Also as already mentioned the ST turbo can't hold full boost at high RPM unless the downpipe/cat has been sorted.

So in summary. Lazy everyday driving/drag strip jobs - ST. Twisties/Handling - EP3 CTR no contest.

Anyway if you had read the guys post you will see it apparently had the fmic and full exhaust system as well as the remap.

On twisty roads the power difference would be less obvious and driver skill comes into it massively, but then a well driven underpowered car in this scenario could stay with a poorly driven massively powerful car. This scenario was not suggested to be the case by the poster.

In a straight line a standard ST is a little quicker as the speeds increase, but a modified 270bhp one is another story.

I also disagree with your last sentence but then that is a subjective point.

He never mentioned around the twisties just that he was suprised a 270bhp car was no quicker than a 197bhp car which is obviously not right.

[Mastodon2]

Tbh I think on the right road even a 182 could edge away from even a 280bhp Focus. Sure, on any straight there would be no problem for the Focus to murder the Clio in a straight line, but the Clio is adept at cornering on full power and utilising all of it's performance on a tight. Just how well does the much bigger, heavier Focus corner on boost? Probably not amazingly, but therein lies the weakness of big power FWD cars.

I wouldn't want to race a mapped Focus ST down an autobahn in my EP3 though. Having had a 270bhp Cupra R, I know that the EP3 just wouldn't have the power to keep up after 90mph or so, but autobahnstorming was never meant to be part of the Type R DNA.

[rb5er]

Mastodon2 said:

Tbh I think on the right road even a 182 could edge away from even a 280bhp Focus.

Even a clio 182? Are you overlooking the fact that a clio 182 has a better power to weight ratio than an ep3? So even less suprising than the ep3.

You seem to be regarding the ST as a boat or something, they handle excellently, the RS is even heavier and handles even better, but none the less its clear the poster was talking about straight line speed, and therefore was talking rubbish.

[Grovsie26]

rb5er said:

Even a clio 182? Are you overlooking the fact that a clio 182 has a better power to weight ratio than an ep3? So even less suprising than the ep3.

You seem to be regarding the ST as a boat or something, they handle excellently, the RS is even heavier and handles even better, but none the less its clear the poster was talking about straight line speed, and therefore was talking rubbish.

On paper the 182 has 168bhp/tonne and the CTR 166.

The problem with this for the clio, is that they tend to make a lot less than quoted. When i had my bog standard CTR i had a mate with a modified 172cup, and a mate with a standard 182 cup, and the CTR was quicker than the 182 from any gear, and quicker than the 172 from 4th gear upwards.

I also wouldn't call the ST a boat or bad handling car by any stretch. It certainly wouldn't have trouble keeping with a 182.